1
00:00:11,990 --> 00:00:10,250
embrace yourself because you're about to

2
00:00:14,180 --> 00:00:12,000
dive into another free first hour

3
00:00:15,379 --> 00:00:14,190
episode of the higher side chats and we

4
00:00:16,790 --> 00:00:15,389
just want to let you know that whether

5
00:00:18,830 --> 00:00:16,800
you're looking for a companion through

6
00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:18,840
your paranoid insomnia entertaining

7
00:00:22,370 --> 00:00:20,369
yourself through one of life's mundane

8
00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:22,380
activities or trying to ward off the

9
00:00:26,689 --> 00:00:24,090
internal screams of all those sad

10
00:00:28,339 --> 00:00:26,699
smothered Souls around the office THC is

11
00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:28,349
here and you should know that every

12
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:30,090
episode of the higher side chats has an

13
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:32,130
entire second hour four plus members

14
00:00:37,010 --> 00:00:34,530
sign up at the higher side chats plus

15
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:37,020
calm and you get years of plus show

16
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:39,570
archives lifetime forum access the

17
00:00:44,389 --> 00:00:41,010
special invite to Greg Carl woods

18
00:00:47,959 --> 00:00:44,399
monthly joint sessions mp3s of THC music

19
00:00:50,389 --> 00:00:47,969
bonus episodes for videos and 10% off

20
00:00:52,310 --> 00:00:50,399
t-shirts grinders and whatever else ends

21
00:00:54,290 --> 00:00:52,320
up in the higher side store it's eight

22
00:00:56,119 --> 00:00:54,300
dollars a month that you won't miss so

23
00:00:57,830 --> 00:00:56,129
become a plus member and treat yourself

24
00:01:00,080 --> 00:00:57,840
in these troubled times always

25
00:01:01,910 --> 00:01:00,090
action-packed and commercial free which

26
00:01:07,940 --> 00:01:01,920
means you'll unfortunately never hear my

27
00:01:13,190 --> 00:01:11,210
in the 1930s President Franklin Delano

28
00:01:15,770 --> 00:01:13,200
Roosevelt addressed the nation through a

29
00:01:18,889 --> 00:01:15,780
series of radio broadcasts known as the

30
00:01:20,690 --> 00:01:18,899
fireside chats his aim was to reassure

31
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:20,700
the common man that our society would

32
00:01:25,310 --> 00:01:22,890
recover from its troubled times while

33
00:01:28,340 --> 00:01:25,320
we're far from 1930 and I deal with a

34
00:01:30,469 --> 00:01:28,350
different kind of fire a worldly

35
00:01:37,940 --> 00:01:30,479
frustration we offer a fresh

36
00:01:39,859 --> 00:01:37,950
conversation I'm Carl would I be alright

37
00:01:41,809 --> 00:01:39,869
higher side chatter some sunny San Diego

38
00:01:43,340 --> 00:01:41,819
I'm Greg Carl wood here to help you make

39
00:01:45,559 --> 00:01:43,350
a little more sense out of this weird

40
00:01:46,850 --> 00:01:45,569
world which is never an easy task with

41
00:01:49,249 --> 00:01:46,860
so many things open to interpretation

42
00:01:51,469 --> 00:01:49,259
high strangeness can oftentimes be

43
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:51,479
pretty hard to define we can also get

44
00:01:55,219 --> 00:01:53,250
caught up in traps of terminology and

45
00:01:57,499 --> 00:01:55,229
category that can greatly affect how

46
00:01:59,889 --> 00:01:57,509
experiences are understood and take us

47
00:02:02,359 --> 00:01:59,899
off the course of true understanding our

48
00:02:04,399 --> 00:02:02,369
visitations from unknown beings angelic

49
00:02:06,499 --> 00:02:04,409
communication or alien encounters our

50
00:02:09,020 --> 00:02:06,509
orbs of light messages from God our

51
00:02:10,910 --> 00:02:09,030
signals from our space brothers were the

52
00:02:12,590 --> 00:02:10,920
strange experiences that anointed

53
00:02:15,110 --> 00:02:12,600
certain religious figures with sainthood

54
00:02:16,849 --> 00:02:15,120
what we call paranormal today and what

55
00:02:18,710 --> 00:02:16,859
sort of beliefs to the billionaires of

56
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:18,720
the tech space who really influenced our

57
00:02:22,670 --> 00:02:20,730
everyday lives actually have behind the

58
00:02:24,110 --> 00:02:22,680
curtain when you're wrestling with such

59
00:02:25,970 --> 00:02:24,120
big questions it helps to have a

60
00:02:27,410 --> 00:02:25,980
complete data set but we're still

61
00:02:29,750 --> 00:02:27,420
sorting out exactly where to draw the

62
00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:29,760
line add in the facts that many people

63
00:02:33,740 --> 00:02:31,650
who have eg encounters go through a

64
00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:33,750
spiritual transformation and some of the

65
00:02:37,190 --> 00:02:35,310
world's most advanced telescopes are

66
00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:37,200
produced by the Catholic Church and it

67
00:02:41,569 --> 00:02:38,910
starts to feel like one big bowl of

68
00:02:43,069 --> 00:02:41,579
mulligatawny well today's guest is an

69
00:02:44,810 --> 00:02:43,079
accomplished professor stitching

70
00:02:46,580 --> 00:02:44,820
together these very worlds of religion

71
00:02:49,039 --> 00:02:46,590
and UFOs and has been examining the

72
00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:49,049
overlap as well as the religiosity of

73
00:02:53,270 --> 00:02:49,890
ufology

74
00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:53,280
her name is dr. Diana pisanka professor

75
00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:54,329
of Religious Studies at the University

76
00:02:58,250 --> 00:02:56,370
of North Carolina and chair of the

77
00:03:00,229 --> 00:02:58,260
Department of Philosophy and religion

78
00:03:02,059 --> 00:03:00,239
she has a great new book out published

79
00:03:04,460 --> 00:03:02,069
by Oxford University Press called

80
00:03:06,979 --> 00:03:04,470
American cosmic UFOs religion and

81
00:03:09,020 --> 00:03:06,989
Technology which details her wild

82
00:03:11,030 --> 00:03:09,030
six-year ride researching these hidden

83
00:03:13,009 --> 00:03:11,040
things from the inner circles of Silicon

84
00:03:14,569 --> 00:03:13,019
Valley to beyond the gates of Vatican

85
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:14,579
archives it's one of the most

86
00:03:17,899 --> 00:03:16,170
interesting books I've read in a while

87
00:03:20,090 --> 00:03:17,909
and I'm psyched to dive into it the

88
00:03:21,890 --> 00:03:20,100
doctor of dogma the professor of Perak

89
00:03:24,020 --> 00:03:21,900
normal thread connecting and ufology

90
00:03:26,510 --> 00:03:24,030
fightclub chronicler dr. Diana

91
00:03:28,790 --> 00:03:26,520
welcome to the higher side thank you I

92
00:03:31,580 --> 00:03:28,800
really like that introduction haha nice

93
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:31,590
well I try I try and thank you so much

94
00:03:34,850 --> 00:03:33,210
for being here you obviously have

95
00:03:36,620 --> 00:03:34,860
accomplished a lot and I'm fortunate to

96
00:03:38,750 --> 00:03:36,630
have some of your time you're probably

97
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:38,760
the only person I know of to penetrate

98
00:03:42,740 --> 00:03:40,650
both the inner circles of the Silicon

99
00:03:45,230 --> 00:03:42,750
Valley tech elite and Vatican archives

100
00:03:47,420 --> 00:03:45,240
very cool and for listeners who are on

101
00:03:49,580 --> 00:03:47,430
the outside who are pretty intrigued by

102
00:03:51,650 --> 00:03:49,590
secrets it's hard to find a more

103
00:03:53,510 --> 00:03:51,660
impressive set of experiences than what

104
00:03:55,700 --> 00:03:53,520
you write about in this book especially

105
00:03:57,380 --> 00:03:55,710
because it is so recent and of course

106
00:03:58,850 --> 00:03:57,390
the obvious first question is how

107
00:04:01,130 --> 00:03:58,860
someone like yourself has really

108
00:04:03,980 --> 00:04:01,140
dedicated your career path to religious

109
00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:03,990
studies ends up interested in UFOs we

110
00:04:08,030 --> 00:04:05,730
all know that sometimes we don't fully

111
00:04:10,430 --> 00:04:08,040
choose the path the path can choose us

112
00:04:12,050 --> 00:04:10,440
and I guess that's kind of in play here

113
00:04:14,030 --> 00:04:12,060
because this sci-fi twist in your

114
00:04:16,670 --> 00:04:14,040
journey sort of started with an

115
00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:16,680
investigation of purgatory is that right

116
00:04:22,730 --> 00:04:20,370
that is right yes so it is odd for me I

117
00:04:26,390 --> 00:04:22,740
have to admit that the research in the

118
00:04:28,580 --> 00:04:26,400
book was as odd for me as it appears for

119
00:04:31,130 --> 00:04:28,590
others so let me assure you that that is

120
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:31,140
the case and if you had told me ten

121
00:04:35,660 --> 00:04:32,970
years ago that I'd be publishing a book

122
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:35,670
like this little and talking about UFOs

123
00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:38,010
and this phenomena I would have laughed

124
00:04:43,700 --> 00:04:40,710
okay and probably take you out of my

125
00:04:47,150 --> 00:04:43,710
house so how did this happen I grew up

126
00:04:49,580 --> 00:04:47,160
actually around Silicon Valley and so I

127
00:04:52,970 --> 00:04:49,590
already knew you know that there was a

128
00:04:56,810 --> 00:04:52,980
tech revolution I was going to grad

129
00:04:59,360 --> 00:04:56,820
school during the 1990s so that's when

130
00:05:00,980 --> 00:04:59,370
the big calm boom was happening so you

131
00:05:03,110 --> 00:05:00,990
know is happening everywhere around me

132
00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:03,120
while I was studying religious studies

133
00:05:09,230 --> 00:05:07,050
at the University of California and I'd

134
00:05:11,060 --> 00:05:09,240
been interested in technology only

135
00:05:13,190 --> 00:05:11,070
because I could tell that it was

136
00:05:16,700 --> 00:05:13,200
changing the very fabric of our society

137
00:05:21,260 --> 00:05:16,710
in ways in which people who are born

138
00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:21,270
after 2000 don't understand so you know

139
00:05:24,980 --> 00:05:22,710
I could feel the you know there's a

140
00:05:27,050 --> 00:05:24,990
German term for this' ike Geist and it

141
00:05:29,150 --> 00:05:27,060
basically means really intense

142
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:29,160
spirit of the time and so I could feel

143
00:05:33,339 --> 00:05:30,289
that

144
00:05:35,379 --> 00:05:33,349
when I graduated with PhD and I was an

145
00:05:37,029 --> 00:05:35,389
assistant professor in my field you

146
00:05:39,999 --> 00:05:37,039
publish or perish so I was you know

147
00:05:42,670 --> 00:05:40,009
publishing about Catholic culture which

148
00:05:46,170 --> 00:05:42,680
is the field that I'm most acquainted

149
00:05:48,850 --> 00:05:46,180
with and I was doing a lot of work on

150
00:05:52,450 --> 00:05:48,860
basically what you would call aerial

151
00:05:55,629 --> 00:05:52,460
phenomena and transformative experiences

152
00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:55,639
with respect to orbs aerial phenomena

153
00:05:59,049 --> 00:05:57,770
beings of light things like that and I

154
00:06:02,469 --> 00:05:59,059
was writing a book about the Catholic

155
00:06:05,079 --> 00:06:02,479
doctrine of purgatory and you know I was

156
00:06:08,260 --> 00:06:05,089
going back hundreds of years to look at

157
00:06:10,659 --> 00:06:08,270
archival resources or sources what we

158
00:06:12,489 --> 00:06:10,669
would call them and read them and I had

159
00:06:14,949 --> 00:06:12,499
a list of these things and so you know I

160
00:06:16,869 --> 00:06:14,959
did write my book about purgatory and it

161
00:06:19,749 --> 00:06:16,879
was published by Oxford and it was you

162
00:06:22,869 --> 00:06:19,759
know a very decent good academic book I

163
00:06:24,399 --> 00:06:22,879
got tenure and you know as academics

164
00:06:25,929 --> 00:06:24,409
generally has their next book already

165
00:06:27,939 --> 00:06:25,939
planned so I had my next book already

166
00:06:29,859 --> 00:06:27,949
planned I was going to write about this

167
00:06:31,119 --> 00:06:29,869
Catholic bishop the first task Bishop

168
00:06:33,670 --> 00:06:31,129
here in the States

169
00:06:35,170 --> 00:06:33,680
he was from Ireland pretty cool guy I

170
00:06:36,759 --> 00:06:35,180
thought you know somebody needs to write

171
00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:36,769
a book about this guy people have

172
00:06:39,999 --> 00:06:37,849
written about him but there needs to be

173
00:06:40,389 --> 00:06:40,009
a new book about him John Anglin was his

174
00:06:43,269 --> 00:06:40,399
name

175
00:06:45,219 --> 00:06:43,279
well I was doing research for that I

176
00:06:48,610 --> 00:06:45,229
kept going back because I was so

177
00:06:50,769 --> 00:06:48,620
intrigued by this list of reports of

178
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:50,779
Catholics from hundreds of years ago up

179
00:06:54,489 --> 00:06:52,610
til the president really of arrow

180
00:06:56,709 --> 00:06:54,499
phenomena and their different

181
00:06:58,269 --> 00:06:56,719
interpretations of it I was looking at

182
00:06:59,529 --> 00:06:58,279
that and I think you know I want to do

183
00:07:01,029 --> 00:06:59,539
something with this but I'm not quite

184
00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:01,039
sure how to even think about it

185
00:07:05,259 --> 00:07:03,110
so I was having coffee with a colleague

186
00:07:06,249 --> 00:07:05,269
and I presented it to the colleague and

187
00:07:08,499 --> 00:07:06,259
I said what do you think of this stuff

188
00:07:10,719 --> 00:07:08,509
and he looked it over you know you went

189
00:07:12,850 --> 00:07:10,729
hmm ah you know kind of thing and he

190
00:07:15,519 --> 00:07:12,860
said well this looks like Steven

191
00:07:16,989 --> 00:07:15,529
Spielberg stas and I said what are you

192
00:07:20,019 --> 00:07:16,999
talking about he said you know it looks

193
00:07:22,389 --> 00:07:20,029
like UFOs and really I just almost like

194
00:07:25,089 --> 00:07:22,399
fat my coffee out at him you know like

195
00:07:28,509 --> 00:07:25,099
get out that's ridiculous but

196
00:07:30,100 --> 00:07:28,519
coincidentally there was a UFO

197
00:07:32,079 --> 00:07:30,110
conference I'd never been to one never

198
00:07:33,639 --> 00:07:32,089
even thought I'd go to one but what

199
00:07:35,019 --> 00:07:33,649
about what he said and I looked at it

200
00:07:36,249 --> 00:07:35,029
and I thought oh yeah it just kind of

201
00:07:39,069 --> 00:07:36,259
looked like that so I went to see you a

202
00:07:41,409 --> 00:07:39,079
folk conference in there I listened to

203
00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:41,419
you Chris Bledsoe who is an experiencer

204
00:07:43,900 --> 00:07:43,370
your audience might be familiar with

205
00:07:45,430 --> 00:07:43,910
this tour

206
00:07:47,710 --> 00:07:45,440
he actually lives in North Carolina

207
00:07:50,020 --> 00:07:47,720
pretty close to me and I heard his story

208
00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:50,030
and a couple other stories by people who

209
00:07:54,580 --> 00:07:52,130
have had these experiences and I

210
00:07:57,070 --> 00:07:54,590
realized that patterns were so similar

211
00:07:58,840 --> 00:07:57,080
that I just decided to start to study

212
00:08:03,430 --> 00:07:58,850
this and that's how it all began it

213
00:08:05,500 --> 00:08:03,440
began in 2012 hmm yeah I love it and the

214
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:05,510
book you mentioned that you grew up

215
00:08:10,630 --> 00:08:07,850
around Silicon Valley but the book opens

216
00:08:13,030 --> 00:08:10,640
with kind of a private tour of Silicon

217
00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:13,040
Valley hosted by Jacques pal a legend in

218
00:08:17,380 --> 00:08:14,330
the field that alone is pretty

219
00:08:20,620 --> 00:08:17,390
impressive right yeah it was really cool

220
00:08:23,310 --> 00:08:20,630
yeah that all happened again by accident

221
00:08:26,410 --> 00:08:23,320
I was at a conference in California and

222
00:08:28,810 --> 00:08:26,420
Robbie cram you might be familiar with

223
00:08:31,660 --> 00:08:28,820
his work he wrote silver screen saucers

224
00:08:35,469 --> 00:08:31,670
and he actually was a PhD student at

225
00:08:37,630 --> 00:08:35,479
that time he was in film and he was a

226
00:08:41,230 --> 00:08:37,640
journalist and he's interested in UFOs

227
00:08:42,670 --> 00:08:41,240
and things like that and so he was also

228
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:42,680
invited to this conference and so we

229
00:08:47,350 --> 00:08:45,770
were both there and we were some the

230
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:47,360
only ones that were interested really in

231
00:08:53,380 --> 00:08:49,730
the UFO topic and Jacque was there of

232
00:08:56,890 --> 00:08:53,390
course you know he is the name in UFOs

233
00:08:59,260 --> 00:08:56,900
and so Robbie and I actually didn't have

234
00:09:01,300 --> 00:08:59,270
a ride back to San Francisco from the

235
00:09:03,850 --> 00:09:01,310
area that we were in a jock offered to

236
00:09:06,370 --> 00:09:03,860
give us a ride and we both kind of like

237
00:09:08,230 --> 00:09:06,380
high-five each other you know yeah so

238
00:09:10,870 --> 00:09:08,240
Jacques decided that he was going to

239
00:09:13,870 --> 00:09:10,880
give us a tour of Silicon Valley and

240
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:13,880
kind of talk to us about everything

241
00:09:18,610 --> 00:09:16,010
about the secrets of Silicon Valley and

242
00:09:20,140 --> 00:09:18,620
and I have to say it blew my mind you

243
00:09:22,570 --> 00:09:20,150
know and this was a place where I grew

244
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:22,580
up I use all the places he took us these

245
00:09:27,730 --> 00:09:25,370
are places for my childhood and he

246
00:09:30,370 --> 00:09:27,740
talked about the places like somebody

247
00:09:31,990 --> 00:09:30,380
you know he created these places really

248
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:32,000
no this is where I work this is where I

249
00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:34,090
did this and says where SR I was

250
00:09:40,150 --> 00:09:37,490
Stanford Research Institute and he would

251
00:09:42,700 --> 00:09:40,160
hint at the secrets of Silicon Valley

252
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:42,710
and so he dropped Robbie off at his

253
00:09:46,510 --> 00:09:44,450
hotel and then he dropped me off and he

254
00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:46,520
gave me a couple books and he said you

255
00:09:49,540 --> 00:09:47,930
know I want you to read these books and

256
00:09:51,970 --> 00:09:49,550
of course heck yeah I read those books

257
00:09:53,470 --> 00:09:51,980
so I read all of Jacque you know I'd

258
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:53,480
already read most of what he had been

259
00:09:57,519 --> 00:09:55,610
already but he gave me some other books

260
00:09:59,650 --> 00:09:57,529
that weren't published and stuff that

261
00:10:01,269 --> 00:09:59,660
wanted me to look at and ever since that

262
00:10:03,249 --> 00:10:01,279
time I've actually been working with

263
00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:03,259
Jacque so I developed a working

264
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:05,810
relationship with them and each other

265
00:10:12,489 --> 00:10:09,290
you know a couple times a year and now

266
00:10:14,410 --> 00:10:12,499
we work together and he's brilliant what

267
00:10:16,989 --> 00:10:14,420
I found when I started to do the history

268
00:10:20,259 --> 00:10:16,999
of the space program in a history of

269
00:10:21,759 --> 00:10:20,269
ufology and that type of thing and to

270
00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:21,769
tell you the truth the histories

271
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:24,050
technology what I found was Jacques was

272
00:10:31,179 --> 00:10:28,490
in all of that from 1970s on so you can

273
00:10:33,549 --> 00:10:31,189
actually access jacque's early work a

274
00:10:35,739 --> 00:10:33,559
lot of it is online free and you know

275
00:10:39,249 --> 00:10:35,749
he's got stuff from the 1970s there

276
00:10:41,460 --> 00:10:39,259
about human-computer interfaces and

277
00:10:44,079 --> 00:10:41,470
stuff like that I mean you know so now

278
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:44,089
he actually just read a paper that I had

279
00:10:47,860 --> 00:10:46,490
written and he commented to me on it he

280
00:10:49,090 --> 00:10:47,870
said all a good work Diana he said you

281
00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:49,100
know we were already doing this in the

282
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:51,680
1970s I said no no I know that and he

283
00:10:55,299 --> 00:10:52,850
said the only reason we couldn't

284
00:10:57,100 --> 00:10:55,309
actually get it done was because we knew

285
00:10:59,679 --> 00:10:57,110
how to do it they didn't have the

286
00:11:02,619 --> 00:10:59,689
correct technology to do it yet so he

287
00:11:05,439 --> 00:11:02,629
was the forerunner of a lot of stuff

288
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:05,449
that's happening now but because people

289
00:11:10,299 --> 00:11:07,850
don't pay attention to history no one

290
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:10,309
really knows that so I open my book with

291
00:11:14,230 --> 00:11:12,050
Jacques for that reason to kind of place

292
00:11:16,749 --> 00:11:14,240
him within that history so people who

293
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:16,759
are interested both in technology but

294
00:11:22,449 --> 00:11:19,850
also in UFOs and paranormal would

295
00:11:24,220 --> 00:11:22,459
understand his place and not just Jacque

296
00:11:26,319 --> 00:11:24,230
but a lot of people that I end up

297
00:11:28,540 --> 00:11:26,329
calling the Invisibles a lot of them

298
00:11:30,429 --> 00:11:28,550
they won't come out you know they did as

299
00:11:33,309 --> 00:11:30,439
much as Yaak did and they're as

300
00:11:34,980 --> 00:11:33,319
interesting but they want to live a more

301
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:34,990
quiet life I guess you could call it

302
00:11:40,179 --> 00:11:37,850
mm-hmm right and that leads us right

303
00:11:42,429 --> 00:11:40,189
into what to me is one of the most

304
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:42,439
interesting aspects of the book why it's

305
00:11:47,829 --> 00:11:45,279
so unique is you write about the

306
00:11:49,629 --> 00:11:47,839
quote/unquote invisible college or to

307
00:11:52,449 --> 00:11:49,639
use another term what's become the

308
00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:52,459
Silicon Valley Fight Club of academics

309
00:11:56,379 --> 00:11:54,800
scientists and millionaires maybe

310
00:11:59,530 --> 00:11:56,389
billionaire class who's out there

311
00:12:02,049 --> 00:11:59,540
studying ufology and secret but some are

312
00:12:04,569 --> 00:12:02,059
privy to classified information and

313
00:12:06,910 --> 00:12:04,579
cross paths with the military and deep

314
00:12:09,490 --> 00:12:06,920
corporate nexus and this is super

315
00:12:11,270 --> 00:12:09,500
provocative to me we have heard about it

316
00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:11,280
in past decades with

317
00:12:15,290 --> 00:12:13,440
s RI and the Stargate project that kind

318
00:12:18,110 --> 00:12:15,300
of thing but I don't know anybody who's

319
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:18,120
written about these latest glimpses into

320
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:20,610
what it has become that's very cool

321
00:12:25,220 --> 00:12:24,210
yes so it took me a while first of all

322
00:12:26,930 --> 00:12:25,230
you have to understand there were a

323
00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:26,940
couple of times in the research when I

324
00:12:31,730 --> 00:12:29,310
decided this research was too weird for

325
00:12:34,580 --> 00:12:31,740
me you know if you look at my history

326
00:12:37,460 --> 00:12:34,590
you look at my collocation I'm just a

327
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:37,470
regular historian of religion like

328
00:12:42,110 --> 00:12:38,970
there's nothing weird about what I've

329
00:12:44,630 --> 00:12:42,120
done right so I'm a very normal and then

330
00:12:46,850 --> 00:12:44,640
you get to past 2012 and I start to

331
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:46,860
write some pretty crazy stuff and I was

332
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:49,170
thinking to myself do I really want to

333
00:12:53,450 --> 00:12:51,600
do this first of all the things I was

334
00:12:55,610 --> 00:12:53,460
learning about or a personally

335
00:12:58,460 --> 00:12:55,620
mind-blowing and since I had to get used

336
00:13:01,490 --> 00:12:58,470
to that secondly you know if I hadn't

337
00:13:03,230 --> 00:13:01,500
already been a full professor and I was

338
00:13:04,010 --> 00:13:03,240
still on the road to getting tenure in

339
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:04,020
that type of thing

340
00:13:09,340 --> 00:13:06,450
I wouldn't touched this research no not

341
00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:09,350
at all so I felt pretty confident that

342
00:13:13,550 --> 00:13:11,850
you know I'd want some research Awards

343
00:13:15,470 --> 00:13:13,560
I'd won a lot of grants I was like I

344
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:15,480
think I'm safe I think I could do this

345
00:13:21,710 --> 00:13:17,970
and not get fired kind of thing so I

346
00:13:24,260 --> 00:13:21,720
kept doing a mean as you yourself feel

347
00:13:25,940 --> 00:13:24,270
there's an innate attraction once you

348
00:13:28,010 --> 00:13:25,950
start to recognize that the world isn't

349
00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:28,020
as you thought it was how can you not

350
00:13:31,579 --> 00:13:30,690
want to study it how could I not want to

351
00:13:33,950 --> 00:13:31,589
know these things

352
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:33,960
so I had to know things I had to learn

353
00:13:39,050 --> 00:13:36,000
more about them and what I found was

354
00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:39,060
that you know Jacques and his friend

355
00:13:44,780 --> 00:13:41,580
Hynek who now is you know everybody

356
00:13:47,210 --> 00:13:44,790
could look at the quote unquote project

357
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:47,220
Bluebook you know historical documentary

358
00:13:54,350 --> 00:13:51,360
on TV there were these programs and is

359
00:13:55,970 --> 00:13:54,360
being existed and so there was this

360
00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:55,980
thing called the invisible college and

361
00:13:59,870 --> 00:13:57,690
the invisible college is I believe

362
00:14:02,300 --> 00:13:59,880
high-neck actually coined the term from

363
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:02,310
a term that I think Francis Bacon

364
00:14:06,350 --> 00:14:03,570
originated now I could be wrong about

365
00:14:07,850 --> 00:14:06,360
that but it originated back when science

366
00:14:11,810 --> 00:14:07,860
was something that the Catholic Church

367
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:11,820
would kill you for okay okay so you know

368
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:13,410
I know that something that you know

369
00:14:17,450 --> 00:14:15,600
today that's not true but back in the

370
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:17,460
day it was very true if you're doing

371
00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:19,890
really far out science and your science

372
00:14:24,829 --> 00:14:22,620
was something that challenged the status

373
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:24,839
quo you could very well be killed for

374
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:25,170
that

375
00:14:28,670 --> 00:14:26,730
so there was this thing called the

376
00:14:30,259 --> 00:14:28,680
invisible college and so high-neck

377
00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:30,269
basically said you know what we're doing

378
00:14:33,290 --> 00:14:30,630
that now

379
00:14:35,060 --> 00:14:33,300
so Jacque and the high-neck were part of

380
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:35,070
the invisible college and there's a book

381
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:36,810
by Jacques called the invisible college

382
00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:39,930
so I realized that I was meeting people

383
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:42,959
in this College but it sure was

384
00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:44,850
different than when Jacques wrote about

385
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:47,910
it in the 1970s in fact it was no longer

386
00:14:54,259 --> 00:14:50,490
physical college because what happened

387
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:54,269
to it was that the people I don't know

388
00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:56,130
why this is the case but I can tell you

389
00:15:00,590 --> 00:14:58,170
it's the case what happened was that a

390
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:00,600
lot of the people within it couldn't

391
00:15:05,389 --> 00:15:03,450
even talk to each other about what

392
00:15:08,329 --> 00:15:05,399
little part of it they were studying so

393
00:15:10,579 --> 00:15:08,339
it became what I called because I

394
00:15:11,420 --> 00:15:10,589
thought this was very similar to Fight

395
00:15:13,550 --> 00:15:11,430
Club right

396
00:15:16,130 --> 00:15:13,560
the Fight Club is the movie in the 1990

397
00:15:19,340 --> 00:15:16,140
and it's also a book and it's about this

398
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:19,350
group of men who create this Fight Club

399
00:15:24,530 --> 00:15:21,930
but they don't talk about it because you

400
00:15:26,210 --> 00:15:24,540
know it's subversive and well really

401
00:15:27,860 --> 00:15:26,220
this is what I was looking I was looking

402
00:15:30,199 --> 00:15:27,870
at something that looks like Fight Club

403
00:15:32,210 --> 00:15:30,209
so that's what I called it I think you

404
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:32,220
know the invisible colony has actually

405
00:15:37,939 --> 00:15:35,250
morph into in the 2000s in The Fight

406
00:15:40,759 --> 00:15:37,949
Club so that's what I decided to call it

407
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:40,769
and I think it's a more accurate term of

408
00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:43,910
what's going on now in that sector

409
00:15:48,860 --> 00:15:46,980
mmm-hmm yeah I think that's so

410
00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:48,870
fascinating in your main points of

411
00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:51,839
contact with the Invisibles with this

412
00:15:57,230 --> 00:15:54,360
secret group working on the UFO thing

413
00:15:59,090 --> 00:15:57,240
are these two guys that are anonymous

414
00:16:01,610 --> 00:15:59,100
you call them Tyler and James Tyler of

415
00:16:05,300 --> 00:16:01,620
course goes with that bite Club motif

416
00:16:07,460 --> 00:16:05,310
but learning about these guys even just

417
00:16:09,290 --> 00:16:07,470
the little bit you were able to say I'm

418
00:16:11,329 --> 00:16:09,300
sure there's so much you can't say but

419
00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:11,339
even just that was fascinating what can

420
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:13,649
you tell people about these two guys

421
00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:17,850
Tyler and James sure so I do talk about

422
00:16:24,259 --> 00:16:21,510
two representatives who open the book

423
00:16:27,170 --> 00:16:24,269
you know we go to a place in New Mexico

424
00:16:30,019 --> 00:16:27,180
that's not Roswell but is supposedly

425
00:16:33,290 --> 00:16:30,029
allegedly a place where you know they

426
00:16:35,060 --> 00:16:33,300
believe that UFOs crashed in the 1940s

427
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:35,070
1947 and

428
00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:37,650
we go there and what intrigues me about

429
00:16:42,860 --> 00:16:40,920
each of these skies is that well they're

430
00:16:46,490 --> 00:16:42,870
both scientists and they're both

431
00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:46,500
incredibly successful scientists okay

432
00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:48,750
one is affiliated with University and

433
00:16:53,810 --> 00:16:51,480
the other one is affiliated with lots of

434
00:16:56,180 --> 00:16:53,820
other space program and stuff like that

435
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:56,190
and they're both incredibly intelligent

436
00:17:00,770 --> 00:16:59,040
and I'm going to stop reading the

437
00:17:02,690 --> 00:17:00,780
reviews of my book but I've actually

438
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:02,700
read some of the reviews and you know

439
00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:03,810
some of them like there's one in

440
00:17:07,819 --> 00:17:05,640
Psychology Today that says the book is

441
00:17:10,010 --> 00:17:07,829
good it's a good book and I follow it

442
00:17:13,069 --> 00:17:10,020
except that she seems awestruck by

443
00:17:15,620 --> 00:17:13,079
scientists and I'm thinking well you

444
00:17:18,260 --> 00:17:15,630
know what I think anybody would be yeah

445
00:17:21,410 --> 00:17:18,270
and it's true each of them in their own

446
00:17:22,550 --> 00:17:21,420
way I mean each of them is probably one

447
00:17:24,650 --> 00:17:22,560
of the most brilliant people I've ever

448
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:24,660
met in my entire life you know and I do

449
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:27,930
meet a lot of smart people so yeah these

450
00:17:32,810 --> 00:17:30,240
guys are brilliant was i awestruck by

451
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:32,820
them I was they didn't lead normal lives

452
00:17:37,070 --> 00:17:35,280
no and if you read about them you'll see

453
00:17:39,020 --> 00:17:37,080
that they just do not lead normal lives

454
00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:39,030
they are not like me okay

455
00:17:43,610 --> 00:17:41,070
I'd not met people like that when I was

456
00:17:46,790 --> 00:17:43,620
doing straight up Catholic history work

457
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:46,800
okay so I was awestruck and that there

458
00:17:51,290 --> 00:17:48,690
were other people like this too I

459
00:17:54,260 --> 00:17:51,300
thought wow I didn't know that these

460
00:17:57,050 --> 00:17:54,270
people existed so I think that part of

461
00:17:58,700 --> 00:17:57,060
the book for me and I do think that that

462
00:18:00,080 --> 00:17:58,710
comes out and a lot of people take

463
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:00,090
exception to that is like you know oh

464
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:02,910
she seems so incredibly impressed with

465
00:18:05,420 --> 00:18:03,570
these people

466
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:05,430
well of course I'm impressed with these

467
00:18:09,860 --> 00:18:07,650
people you know one of them can quote

468
00:18:11,930 --> 00:18:09,870
unquote room for a jet if you want you

469
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:11,940
know if you do that and you know how

470
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:13,770
many people do you know that can do that

471
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:16,290
you know and so yeah it's really

472
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:18,210
impressive and they do this through what

473
00:18:22,970 --> 00:18:20,640
they believe has to do with the

474
00:18:25,820 --> 00:18:22,980
inspiration they get from what they

475
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:25,830
think are alien artifacts and stuff like

476
00:18:33,770 --> 00:18:31,050
that so if the story sounds absolutely

477
00:18:36,350 --> 00:18:33,780
weird it is absolutely weird but it's

478
00:18:38,510 --> 00:18:36,360
true and so why did that come through in

479
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:38,520
the first couple chapters of I think

480
00:18:43,610 --> 00:18:41,970
just my I called it mind-blowing earlier

481
00:18:44,990 --> 00:18:43,620
and I would have to say that you know

482
00:18:48,180 --> 00:18:45,000
there's another word for it which is

483
00:18:50,759 --> 00:18:48,190
more you know an academic it's you know

484
00:18:52,919 --> 00:18:50,769
of my epistemological shock yeah I was

485
00:18:54,450 --> 00:18:52,929
shocked on so many different levels but

486
00:18:57,539 --> 00:18:54,460
let's just call it being mind blown I

487
00:18:59,580 --> 00:18:57,549
was my mind was being blown yeah I'm a

488
00:19:02,519 --> 00:18:59,590
normal person and here I'm introduced to

489
00:19:03,990 --> 00:19:02,529
a world that's not normal at all it is

490
00:19:06,210 --> 00:19:04,000
filled with millionaires and

491
00:19:08,159 --> 00:19:06,220
billionaires and it is filled with

492
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:08,169
people who have these belief systems and

493
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:10,570
I do tell them that I'm writing about

494
00:19:16,159 --> 00:19:13,120
them and they say we know that what I

495
00:19:18,690 --> 00:19:16,169
can say is that they don't talk about it

496
00:19:20,220 --> 00:19:18,700
they do the research the research is

497
00:19:22,379 --> 00:19:20,230
going to probably come out as

498
00:19:24,659 --> 00:19:22,389
peer-reviewed articles and stuff like

499
00:19:28,590 --> 00:19:24,669
that it won't look like you know there

500
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:28,600
will be no this is the smoking gun of

501
00:19:32,850 --> 00:19:31,450
UFO proof I don't think it's going to

502
00:19:34,169 --> 00:19:32,860
come out like that to tell you the truth

503
00:19:36,869 --> 00:19:34,179
I think it's just going to come out as

504
00:19:38,820 --> 00:19:36,879
real boring stuff that when you read it

505
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:38,830
I won't be able to understand it because

506
00:19:42,779 --> 00:19:40,570
I've read some of the patents I don't

507
00:19:45,330 --> 00:19:42,789
understand them I'm a smart person but

508
00:19:46,830 --> 00:19:45,340
I'm not a scientist so that's really how

509
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:46,840
it's going to happen Greg and I think

510
00:19:51,779 --> 00:19:48,850
that you know it's these people that are

511
00:19:53,610 --> 00:19:51,789
doing that work well said yeah it is

512
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:53,620
just really amazing that you got to

513
00:19:58,110 --> 00:19:55,450
spend any time at all within a circle

514
00:20:00,899 --> 00:19:58,120
like this and some of the breadcrumbs

515
00:20:03,570 --> 00:20:00,909
that Tyler and James drop that you were

516
00:20:06,090 --> 00:20:03,580
able to include are pretty impressive

517
00:20:08,159 --> 00:20:06,100
they give these little insights into

518
00:20:11,399 --> 00:20:08,169
their work in their world that I am

519
00:20:13,860 --> 00:20:11,409
always thirsty for for example Tyler

520
00:20:16,139 --> 00:20:13,870
describes getting brought in so to speak

521
00:20:18,749 --> 00:20:16,149
and it sort of stemmed from an idea for

522
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:18,759
an experiment that he had that he says

523
00:20:23,460 --> 00:20:21,330
came from a memory of some kind

524
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:23,470
definitely in the wheelhouse of things

525
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:24,850
I've heard before when it comes to

526
00:20:30,269 --> 00:20:28,000
certain ideas just coming to people at

527
00:20:32,490 --> 00:20:30,279
the right place and time they sometimes

528
00:20:35,820 --> 00:20:32,500
feel like they were given these ideas

529
00:20:38,340 --> 00:20:35,830
but once he's in the secret program he

530
00:20:40,529 --> 00:20:38,350
says that his desk was next to a square

531
00:20:43,649 --> 00:20:40,539
room that was covered in concrete and

532
00:20:45,690 --> 00:20:43,659
metal he goes on saying there was

533
00:20:47,850 --> 00:20:45,700
something in there that either emitted

534
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:47,860
frequencies or signals and they didn't

535
00:20:52,259 --> 00:20:49,690
want those to escape or they didn't want

536
00:20:54,090 --> 00:20:52,269
signals to get in I never knew which it

537
00:20:56,490 --> 00:20:54,100
was a mysterious place and we weren't

538
00:20:59,310 --> 00:20:56,500
allowed to talk about it and later he

539
00:21:01,760 --> 00:20:59,320
adds that in the program I started to

540
00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:01,770
find myself on jobs where I interface

541
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:04,320
directly with the phenomenon I know it's

542
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:07,850
language it does speak to us in space I

543
00:21:12,380 --> 00:21:10,080
don't know who is responsible for

544
00:21:14,930 --> 00:21:12,390
putting me on these jobs I think somehow

545
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:14,940
they are responsible for it my own

546
00:21:19,730 --> 00:21:17,280
direct boss doesn't know what I do this

547
00:21:21,740 --> 00:21:19,740
is how the program works and those are

548
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:21,750
just a couple of the reveals that sort

549
00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:24,210
of dance around the things that we think

550
00:21:29,450 --> 00:21:26,070
are happening but we just can't seem to

551
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:29,460
confirm them all that often I just can't

552
00:21:33,770 --> 00:21:31,650
get over it but you mentioned that car

553
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:33,780
ride with Tyler and James that seemed

554
00:21:38,210 --> 00:21:35,610
pretty intense you had to be blindfolded

555
00:21:39,860 --> 00:21:38,220
for the car ride to be taken to the

556
00:21:42,770 --> 00:21:39,870
secret location somewhere in the New

557
00:21:44,930 --> 00:21:42,780
Mexico desert in a no-fly zone and there

558
00:21:47,930 --> 00:21:44,940
are insightful layers of detail there

559
00:21:50,990 --> 00:21:47,940
too but ultimately you found something

560
00:21:52,940 --> 00:21:51,000
alien use the term artifact can you

561
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:52,950
elaborate on that experience a little

562
00:21:58,490 --> 00:21:56,010
bit and maybe describe what you found

563
00:22:02,150 --> 00:21:58,500
out there for the people here we found

564
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:02,160
artifacts and first of all I resisted

565
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:03,690
going there for a while because you know

566
00:22:09,380 --> 00:22:06,240
it's kind of odd to be asked to go there

567
00:22:10,940 --> 00:22:09,390
and I was like why does this person want

568
00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:10,950
me to go there Tyler asked me to go

569
00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:13,740
because Tyler believes that the

570
00:22:18,410 --> 00:22:16,710
historical information that I had and by

571
00:22:21,290 --> 00:22:18,420
the way he's not the only scientists

572
00:22:24,110 --> 00:22:21,300
that had approached to me and asked me

573
00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:24,120
about some of my work in like I did some

574
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:26,940
work on angels and in the past and

575
00:22:31,060 --> 00:22:28,290
sources about angels

576
00:22:34,610 --> 00:22:31,070
so I had been approached by people

577
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:34,620
associated with let's just call them

578
00:22:39,950 --> 00:22:37,530
groups that study UFOs okay so these are

579
00:22:41,930 --> 00:22:39,960
private actually associated with the

580
00:22:44,180 --> 00:22:41,940
leaders they have their own scientists

581
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:44,190
and their scientists reach out to me and

582
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:47,010
asked me for information and I said my

583
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:48,690
information is online I don't hide

584
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:50,250
anything you know you can read it and

585
00:22:54,049 --> 00:22:51,600
ask me questions about it that's fine

586
00:22:56,570 --> 00:22:54,059
and so it wasn't the first time I was

587
00:22:59,480 --> 00:22:56,580
approached but what happened here was

588
00:23:01,610 --> 00:22:59,490
that he asked me to go he said I think

589
00:23:03,950 --> 00:23:01,620
that you need to see some of the

590
00:23:06,049 --> 00:23:03,960
physical evidence for this instead of

591
00:23:08,090 --> 00:23:06,059
just kind of the historical abstract

592
00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:08,100
stuff that you write about and of course

593
00:23:12,530 --> 00:23:10,110
I was intrigued but I was also not

594
00:23:14,380 --> 00:23:12,540
really willing to go to this place where

595
00:23:17,170 --> 00:23:14,390
I had to be blindfold

596
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:17,180
you know I was like I don't think I'm

597
00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:20,240
going to do that and so at the time I

598
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:22,880
said can I bring someone with you and he

599
00:23:25,930 --> 00:23:24,770
said no you gotta go by yourself and I

600
00:23:27,790 --> 00:23:25,940
was like well then I'm not going to go

601
00:23:30,130 --> 00:23:27,800
and he goes okay well who do you want to

602
00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:30,140
bring and I asked I don't know if you're

603
00:23:35,230 --> 00:23:32,630
aware of Jeff Krol and his work neither

604
00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:35,240
academic at Rice University so he's a

605
00:23:39,730 --> 00:23:36,710
colleague of mine and we worked together

606
00:23:41,290 --> 00:23:39,740
on various things and I said yes listen

607
00:23:42,910 --> 00:23:41,300
you really want to go to this place with

608
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:42,920
me it's really going to be cool and this

609
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:44,330
and that and we have to wear a blindfold

610
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:47,360
and he was like Diana that's just like

611
00:23:51,460 --> 00:23:49,250
outside of my comfort zone I don't think

612
00:23:53,290 --> 00:23:51,470
I want to do that and so I again I was

613
00:23:56,410 --> 00:23:53,300
like you know he's bright like he's just

614
00:23:59,260 --> 00:23:56,420
too weird and then I had in there gusta

615
00:24:01,300 --> 00:23:59,270
James and James again was an academic so

616
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:01,310
I felt comfortable don't ask me why I

617
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:03,200
know academics I've been one for a long

618
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:05,650
time so I felt comfortable with Jane and

619
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:10,010
he's obsessed with the study so I asked

620
00:24:14,020 --> 00:24:11,600
him and I said will you go and he said

621
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:14,030
I'd go tomorrow I go like independent

622
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:16,970
and so I said okay right so I submitted

623
00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:19,250
his name to Tyler and I said what about

624
00:24:23,290 --> 00:24:21,470
this guy and I knew Tyler was going to

625
00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:23,300
say yes and the reason I knew that he

626
00:24:27,250 --> 00:24:25,520
would was because of all the scientists

627
00:24:29,980 --> 00:24:27,260
in the world I thought that if anyone

628
00:24:32,770 --> 00:24:29,990
could figure out the artifacts that it

629
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:32,780
would be games now remember though I'm a

630
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:34,640
scholar of religion so I'm not

631
00:24:38,110 --> 00:24:36,410
necessarily believing any of the stuff

632
00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:38,120
right that they believed but what I'm

633
00:24:43,990 --> 00:24:41,150
doing is I'm learning about it and so

634
00:24:47,650 --> 00:24:44,000
you know I'm maintaining his skepticism

635
00:24:50,290 --> 00:24:47,660
which they both understand and so Tyler

636
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:50,300
eventually said yes so we all fly out

637
00:24:56,009 --> 00:24:52,570
there we all meet up

638
00:24:58,560 --> 00:24:56,019
and we stay at this place the next day

639
00:25:00,210 --> 00:24:58,570
we're told to wear special clothes

640
00:25:02,999 --> 00:25:00,220
because they're rattlesnakes out there

641
00:25:05,759 --> 00:25:03,009
so we wear like other boots and you know

642
00:25:08,490 --> 00:25:05,769
it's cold but it's also really sunny so

643
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:08,500
we're going to get burned probably you

644
00:25:11,879 --> 00:25:09,850
know by the Sun so I'm wearing like a

645
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:11,889
hat and you know we look kind of

646
00:25:17,539 --> 00:25:14,159
ridiculous and we go out there

647
00:25:19,999 --> 00:25:17,549
Tyler has metal detectors that are

648
00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:20,009
special metal detectors I guess and

649
00:25:26,460 --> 00:25:23,710
they're configured to certain types of

650
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:26,470
things and so we use those and we spend

651
00:25:30,299 --> 00:25:28,000
all day out there and we do find some

652
00:25:32,129 --> 00:25:30,309
artifacts out there now we're not born

653
00:25:34,409 --> 00:25:32,139
yesterday although some people might

654
00:25:36,690 --> 00:25:34,419
think that so James and I confer with

655
00:25:37,950 --> 00:25:36,700
each other occasionally we're like okay

656
00:25:39,570 --> 00:25:37,960
are we being set up you know what's

657
00:25:41,639 --> 00:25:39,580
going on or he's being planted out here

658
00:25:44,850 --> 00:25:41,649
and you know some of the artifacts are

659
00:25:47,610 --> 00:25:44,860
so far below the surface of this really

660
00:25:50,999 --> 00:25:47,620
strange rubble stuff out in the middle

661
00:25:52,590 --> 00:25:51,009
of nowhere that I can't imagine why

662
00:25:55,110 --> 00:25:52,600
someone would plant them out there for

663
00:25:57,419 --> 00:25:55,120
us to find but maybe somebody did so

664
00:25:59,100 --> 00:25:57,429
anyway so he found some and then later

665
00:26:00,960 --> 00:25:59,110
on Tyler and I found some and I could

666
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:00,970
tell some of the part what they look

667
00:26:05,730 --> 00:26:03,610
like and it's disgusting today the trees

668
00:26:11,730 --> 00:26:05,740
it looks kind of weird but it looks like

669
00:26:15,029 --> 00:26:11,740
frog skin that's metallic hmm yeah

670
00:26:17,369 --> 00:26:15,039
that's true yep but some of the other

671
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:17,379
parts they did not look like that they

672
00:26:23,100 --> 00:26:19,919
look different and it's hard to explain

673
00:26:25,049 --> 00:26:23,110
what they were made out of names looked

674
00:26:26,490 --> 00:26:25,059
like they were threaded with something

675
00:26:29,369 --> 00:26:26,500
that I wasn't quite sure what they were

676
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:29,379
threaded with you know some kind of very

677
00:26:34,580 --> 00:26:32,559
very small intense thread so anyway they

678
00:26:37,049 --> 00:26:34,590
were taken back and they've been

679
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:37,059
continuously looked at by scientists

680
00:26:42,570 --> 00:26:40,330
from all over the place Wow by the way

681
00:26:45,029 --> 00:26:42,580
some people have asked me are these the

682
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:45,039
artifacts that you know some companies

683
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:46,570
out there have and that are talked about

684
00:26:51,330 --> 00:26:49,570
and I don't know I mean these are not

685
00:26:53,220 --> 00:26:51,340
those artifacts they might be the same

686
00:26:55,860 --> 00:26:53,230
type of artifacts I honestly don't know

687
00:26:59,149 --> 00:26:55,870
but these artifacts are in the

688
00:27:02,460 --> 00:26:59,159
possession of other scientists not me

689
00:27:04,590 --> 00:27:02,470
not James and not Tyler but there are

690
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:04,600
people that you know

691
00:27:08,220 --> 00:27:06,610
looked at them did some analysis and

692
00:27:12,060 --> 00:27:08,230
then they left and went somewhere else

693
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:12,070
so I don't know who has them now right

694
00:27:16,140 --> 00:27:14,320
on very exciting but of course you

695
00:27:18,540 --> 00:27:16,150
mentioned aesthetically one of these

696
00:27:21,540 --> 00:27:18,550
things looks like metallic frog skin and

697
00:27:24,270 --> 00:27:21,550
I have heard descriptions of things of

698
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:24,280
this nature as being a mix of mechanical

699
00:27:30,750 --> 00:27:27,520
and biological is the metallic frog skin

700
00:27:32,790 --> 00:27:30,760
description just aesthetic or would you

701
00:27:35,010 --> 00:27:32,800
say that it did seem like some of these

702
00:27:37,789 --> 00:27:35,020
things had a mix of mechanical and

703
00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:37,799
biological components

704
00:27:43,529 --> 00:27:41,710
that's a good question so some of the

705
00:27:46,049 --> 00:27:43,539
work that I've done and one of the

706
00:27:48,180 --> 00:27:46,059
papers that I wrote that you know

707
00:27:49,919 --> 00:27:48,190
Jacques said oh this is good but we were

708
00:27:52,289 --> 00:27:49,929
doing this already in the 70s [\h__\h]

709
00:27:57,060 --> 00:27:52,299
and I was like I'm basically talking

710
00:28:00,830 --> 00:27:57,070
about biotechnology and the kinds of

711
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:00,840
ways in which the human being is

712
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:03,130
interfacing more and more with

713
00:28:08,050 --> 00:28:04,870
technology I mean we can't escape it

714
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:08,060
we're immersed in it

715
00:28:13,540 --> 00:28:10,910
a lot of people that aren't me but you

716
00:28:16,140 --> 00:28:13,550
know came before me have said that when

717
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:16,150
and if we do meet et that it will be

718
00:28:20,530 --> 00:28:18,290
techno right is going to be the

719
00:28:22,180 --> 00:28:20,540
technology it's going to be either

720
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:22,190
they're not going to be carbon-based

721
00:28:26,590 --> 00:28:24,650
they're going to be techno and so I

722
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:26,600
don't know great so I mean that's the

723
00:28:31,980 --> 00:28:28,730
big question what is this stuff I think

724
00:28:35,230 --> 00:28:31,990
that I as a professor of humanities and

725
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:35,240
religious studies I can't say what it is

726
00:28:39,730 --> 00:28:37,610
I honestly don't know but do I have an

727
00:28:42,490 --> 00:28:39,740
opinion about it it's hard for me even

728
00:28:44,260 --> 00:28:42,500
to form an opinion about what the heck

729
00:28:46,150 --> 00:28:44,270
what the heck it is

730
00:28:47,860 --> 00:28:46,160
I can only report like I said in the

731
00:28:50,380 --> 00:28:47,870
book what the scientist said about it

732
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:50,390
and they were confused it was probably

733
00:28:53,890 --> 00:28:52,370
the biggest question mark they ever had

734
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:53,900
in their lives and that's why they're

735
00:28:58,600 --> 00:28:56,480
obsessed with it you know think about it

736
00:29:01,660 --> 00:28:58,610
- you know we're researchers right so we

737
00:29:03,460 --> 00:29:01,670
each have our own specialty and this for

738
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:03,470
me this kind of what I call this new

739
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:05,840
form of religiosity this is the biggest

740
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:07,490
question mark I've encountered in my

741
00:29:11,260 --> 00:29:09,650
research so I can't let it go so they're

742
00:29:13,060 --> 00:29:11,270
not going to let it go you know so

743
00:29:16,690 --> 00:29:13,070
they're going to continue to try to

744
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:16,700
figure it out mm-hmm it is fascinating

745
00:29:21,910 --> 00:29:20,240
and in terms of the place itself you

746
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:21,920
mentioned you had to be blindfolded for

747
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:23,930
the car ride but then there's also this

748
00:29:28,570 --> 00:29:25,730
passing remark in the book about this

749
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:28,580
secret crash site location also being

750
00:29:35,020 --> 00:29:32,090
the same site where an x-files scene was

751
00:29:36,910 --> 00:29:35,030
filmed is that right I don't know if

752
00:29:40,030 --> 00:29:36,920
it's really where that file scene was

753
00:29:41,530 --> 00:29:40,040
filmed but I can tell you this and it is

754
00:29:43,630 --> 00:29:41,540
in the book it's in the first part of

755
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:43,640
the book where I basically take off the

756
00:29:48,580 --> 00:29:45,410
blindfold so we get there it's a really

757
00:29:51,310 --> 00:29:48,590
weird awkward car ride I don't do well

758
00:29:52,990 --> 00:29:51,320
well frankly I've not been blindfolded

759
00:29:54,670 --> 00:29:53,000
before so I can honestly say that I

760
00:29:57,790 --> 00:29:54,680
didn't do well blindfolded that we're

761
00:29:59,530 --> 00:29:57,800
all nervous until we get there and we

762
00:30:02,320 --> 00:29:59,540
take off the blindfold James and I do

763
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:02,330
and I look around and it's really

764
00:30:07,330 --> 00:30:05,360
beautiful and eerie looking and I'm

765
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:07,340
looking around and I keep looking at

766
00:30:12,190 --> 00:30:10,730
this one kind of Mesa area and Tyler

767
00:30:13,570 --> 00:30:12,200
looks at me and notices I keep looking

768
00:30:16,420 --> 00:30:13,580
over there and he says oh yeah you

769
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:16,430
recognize that place and I say what are

770
00:30:20,110 --> 00:30:17,840
you talking about I've never been here

771
00:30:21,970 --> 00:30:20,120
before and he laughs and he goes yeah

772
00:30:24,519 --> 00:30:21,980
but you know you recognize it

773
00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:24,529
and so I look at it again and I go no he

774
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:26,480
said well it's one of the scenes in the

775
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:30,710
x-files and I looked at it it does look

776
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:32,720
like that scene it looks like the crash

777
00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:35,510
scene you know where the saucer crashes

778
00:30:41,049 --> 00:30:39,529
into the little hill and he said oh they

779
00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:41,059
may have had like an insider on their

780
00:30:44,980 --> 00:30:42,529
team or something like that on their

781
00:30:48,090 --> 00:30:44,990
production team right and so at that

782
00:30:50,740 --> 00:30:48,100
point I mean a weird story just got

783
00:30:53,019 --> 00:30:50,750
supercharged weird it just got so weird

784
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:53,029
for me that I felt like I wasn't even in

785
00:30:57,970 --> 00:30:55,610
real life you know I felt like where am

786
00:30:59,649 --> 00:30:57,980
I now and so I just thought more and

787
00:31:01,779 --> 00:30:59,659
more about it and I thought you know wow

788
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:01,789
this is really Union like in terms of

789
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:05,510
Karl again I feel like I am at ground

790
00:31:12,310 --> 00:31:09,440
zero of a mythology of our age like a

791
00:31:14,620 --> 00:31:12,320
new form of religion you know because

792
00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:14,630
the whole mythology of Roswell the whole

793
00:31:20,769 --> 00:31:18,110
mythology of New Mexico and this new

794
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:20,779
form of religiosity which you know these

795
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:22,490
people believe that this is a sacred

796
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:26,510
site so from then on my research made a

797
00:31:30,940 --> 00:31:28,130
lot more sense to me because at first it

798
00:31:32,740 --> 00:31:30,950
didn't I was thinking that these people

799
00:31:34,659 --> 00:31:32,750
just look at these things as relics just

800
00:31:36,250 --> 00:31:34,669
like you know Catholics have relics you

801
00:31:39,039 --> 00:31:36,260
know in every religion there are sacred

802
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:39,049
items like sacred books take the themes

803
00:31:43,180 --> 00:31:40,880
that people touch there are crosses

804
00:31:45,159 --> 00:31:43,190
there crucifixes right we call these

805
00:31:46,570 --> 00:31:45,169
things relics and I thought you know

806
00:31:51,250 --> 00:31:46,580
we're going to a place where their

807
00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:51,260
relics but then recognize it this had to

808
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:53,360
do with the media you know this had to

809
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:57,039
do with not just a relic but the actual

810
00:32:03,399 --> 00:32:00,799
place itself everybody knew about this

811
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:03,409
place because of the x-files right so I

812
00:32:07,539 --> 00:32:05,600
thought wow this brings it up to the

813
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:07,549
Kubrick level you know 2001 Space

814
00:32:12,430 --> 00:32:10,610
Odyssey where this kind of belief system

815
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:12,440
is coming through through screens

816
00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:15,919
through TV through media and now I get

817
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:17,929
it you know this is way more interesting

818
00:32:24,399 --> 00:32:20,090
than I thought it was so that's when for

819
00:32:26,139 --> 00:32:24,409
me it became really bizarre it was

820
00:32:28,629 --> 00:32:26,149
bizarre enough already but this became

821
00:32:30,369 --> 00:32:28,639
really weird for me at that point yeah

822
00:32:32,259 --> 00:32:30,379
it takes it to a new level you mentioned

823
00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:32,269
2001 of course what does the monolith

824
00:32:37,310 --> 00:32:34,980
look like but a smartphone screen

825
00:32:41,780 --> 00:32:37,320
maybe that is an alien interface of some

826
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:41,790
kind and it is really strange but I love

827
00:32:46,010 --> 00:32:44,010
that little detail because I've had

828
00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:46,020
guests who talk about how it seems that

829
00:32:50,330 --> 00:32:48,809
certain sci-fi writers maybe were more

830
00:32:53,299 --> 00:32:50,340
connected than you might have thought at

831
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:53,309
first and that these inner circles

832
00:32:58,850 --> 00:32:56,880
actually contain some Hollywood threads

833
00:33:01,070 --> 00:32:58,860
and it isn't just some of this really

834
00:33:02,510 --> 00:33:01,080
far-out sci-fi stuff it's not just ideas

835
00:33:05,450 --> 00:33:02,520
that they came up with creatively

836
00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:05,460
sometimes it is a seeded message of some

837
00:33:09,650 --> 00:33:07,620
kind for some reason maybe we don't know

838
00:33:11,299 --> 00:33:09,660
exactly why but I find that really

839
00:33:14,860 --> 00:33:11,309
interesting and it also kind of connects

840
00:33:18,169 --> 00:33:14,870
to the fact that it is a strange book to

841
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:18,179
come out of Oxford University Press the

842
00:33:22,130 --> 00:33:20,490
one you wrote and other academics who

843
00:33:24,380 --> 00:33:22,140
have tried to go down this road like a

844
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,390
John Mac they haven't had very good

845
00:33:29,270 --> 00:33:26,880
experiences but in the past few years it

846
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:29,280
does seem to be maybe something changing

847
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:31,290
we had that Pentagon disclosure that

848
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:33,600
money was put into UFO research in the

849
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:36,510
last decade we had that big to the stars

850
00:33:41,870 --> 00:33:38,850
Academy thing which kind of felt like a

851
00:33:45,409 --> 00:33:41,880
roll out of sorts I'm curious did Tyler

852
00:33:47,930 --> 00:33:45,419
or James ever comment on the veil being

853
00:33:49,789 --> 00:33:47,940
lifted or even this to the Stars Academy

854
00:33:52,850 --> 00:33:49,799
project or any of this kind of thing

855
00:33:54,590 --> 00:33:52,860
that maybe were entering a new era where

856
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:54,600
some of this stuff will start to come

857
00:34:02,010 --> 00:33:59,120
okay so that's a really good question

858
00:34:06,330 --> 00:34:02,020
I'm not going to talk about that to the

859
00:34:10,139 --> 00:34:06,340
Stars Academy I will say that many times

860
00:34:14,490 --> 00:34:10,149
I have questioned if this was somehow

861
00:34:16,830 --> 00:34:14,500
all being done you know kind of doors

862
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:16,840
were opening for me to easily write and

863
00:34:25,409 --> 00:34:21,970
I did question that I do know that this

864
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:25,419
is an academic book and Oxford would not

865
00:34:30,119 --> 00:34:28,330
have accepted it had it not been and my

866
00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:30,129
editor and I went back and forth a lot

867
00:34:35,010 --> 00:34:32,800
about you know how do we say this or how

868
00:34:39,810 --> 00:34:35,020
do we present this and that they are

869
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:39,820
topknot academic and that sometimes

870
00:34:44,909 --> 00:34:41,770
during interviews if I have an opinion

871
00:34:47,129 --> 00:34:44,919
that it would not be accepted by either

872
00:34:48,750 --> 00:34:47,139
Oxford or my university that I would say

873
00:34:50,849 --> 00:34:48,760
that I would say I distance myself and

874
00:34:54,899 --> 00:34:50,859
say this is just my opinion as you know

875
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:54,909
a person and not as an academic so I

876
00:34:59,760 --> 00:34:57,490
knew I needed to write the book from the

877
00:35:02,670 --> 00:34:59,770
perspective of my field which is not

878
00:35:06,420 --> 00:35:02,680
done the hope belief right however that

879
00:35:08,490 --> 00:35:06,430
said the very book itself and a very

880
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:08,500
mythology of entering it and the very

881
00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:13,450
fact that it's immersed within screen

882
00:35:19,470 --> 00:35:16,320
cultures and that screen cultures

883
00:35:22,260 --> 00:35:19,480
actually permeate our brains and our

884
00:35:25,140 --> 00:35:22,270
bodies in ways in which I do detail in

885
00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:25,150
the book makes this a different book and

886
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:27,760
makes this whole era a different era so

887
00:35:32,849 --> 00:35:30,010
I could write this book and also

888
00:35:35,849 --> 00:35:32,859
acknowledge those parts in the book or I

889
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:35,859
say how do I write this as an outsider

890
00:35:41,370 --> 00:35:38,530
and I just basically said it's

891
00:35:43,650 --> 00:35:41,380
impossible for me to do that because I'm

892
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:43,660
not an outsider I mean I've been raised

893
00:35:50,330 --> 00:35:47,650
on Star Wars you know and all of us that

894
00:35:56,099 --> 00:35:50,340
are living today have been raised with

895
00:35:57,780 --> 00:35:56,109
media that have in many ways influenced

896
00:36:01,349 --> 00:35:57,790
the ways in which we believe in

897
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:01,359
extraterrestrials and UFOs and because

898
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:03,520
of that we do have to talk about this

899
00:36:08,460 --> 00:36:05,410
you know this is something now that can

900
00:36:11,130 --> 00:36:08,470
be reviewed in Psychology Today and that

901
00:36:13,830 --> 00:36:11,140
you know will get the attention well I

902
00:36:16,109 --> 00:36:13,840
mean let's put it this way after Leslie

903
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:16,119
Kane and Ralph Blumenthal

904
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:18,000
wrote their New York Times article in

905
00:36:22,370 --> 00:36:20,850
December 2017

906
00:36:24,740 --> 00:36:22,380
phone calls from people from Harvard who

907
00:36:27,290 --> 00:36:24,750
were basically asking me about the

908
00:36:28,820 --> 00:36:27,300
research and study of UFOs and how can

909
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:28,830
we include this in the curriculum at

910
00:36:33,470 --> 00:36:31,650
Harvard right so there and John Mack was

911
00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:33,480
the guy who was investigated by Harvard

912
00:36:38,570 --> 00:36:35,520
in the 1980s so the landscape had

913
00:36:41,570 --> 00:36:38,580
completely changed and I do believe part

914
00:36:44,030 --> 00:36:41,580
of it is because of the digital

915
00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:44,040
infrastructure in which we live and that

916
00:36:49,490 --> 00:36:46,710
most of us like I said were weaned on

917
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:49,500
Star Wars and that we've come of age now

918
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:52,410
we are now professionals and plus you've

919
00:36:54,770 --> 00:36:54,240
got NASA scientists basically coming

920
00:36:57,050 --> 00:36:54,780
along

921
00:36:59,150 --> 00:36:57,060
you know like Ellen stofan who's I face

922
00:37:01,640 --> 00:36:59,160
she's still the head chief scientists at

923
00:37:04,190 --> 00:37:01,650
NASA they may have changed that but she

924
00:37:05,300 --> 00:37:04,200
was a year ago and so she comes along

925
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:05,310
and he says we're going to find

926
00:37:09,980 --> 00:37:07,890
extraterrestrial life and it's going to

927
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:09,990
be really soon with the next 10 20 years

928
00:37:13,970 --> 00:37:11,520
we have the equipment we know where to

929
00:37:16,430 --> 00:37:13,980
look and she's not necessarily talking

930
00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:16,440
about telogen extraterrestrial life you

931
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:17,730
know she's talking probably about

932
00:37:22,670 --> 00:37:19,770
microbes and stuff but the ways in which

933
00:37:25,460 --> 00:37:22,680
we interpret that as people who've been

934
00:37:27,620 --> 00:37:25,470
brought up with Star Wars and such is

935
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:27,630
that oh yeah we're going to find you

936
00:37:31,220 --> 00:37:29,370
know Yuki has either been here or here

937
00:37:33,380 --> 00:37:31,230
or you know we interpret that in many

938
00:37:35,770 --> 00:37:33,390
ways and most of those ways are primed

939
00:37:38,570 --> 00:37:35,780
by media

940
00:37:42,349 --> 00:37:38,580
mm-hmm-hmm I totally agree with you and

941
00:37:44,180 --> 00:37:42,359
as she said all this ufology stuff was

942
00:37:46,220 --> 00:37:44,190
pretty new to you and outside of your

943
00:37:48,290 --> 00:37:46,230
typical research territory but not by

944
00:37:50,839 --> 00:37:48,300
much because the study of religion can

945
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:50,849
get pretty weird can you elaborate on

946
00:37:53,839 --> 00:37:52,050
that a little bit and where your

947
00:37:55,460 --> 00:37:53,849
knowledge of Catholic history might

948
00:37:57,020 --> 00:37:55,470
overlap with what's considered

949
00:37:59,990 --> 00:37:57,030
paranormal today because there are some

950
00:38:02,780 --> 00:38:00,000
great examples out there absolutely in

951
00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:02,790
the field of religious studies and this

952
00:38:06,650 --> 00:38:04,710
is an interdisciplinary field and a lot

953
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:06,660
of people aren't even aware that people

954
00:38:11,660 --> 00:38:09,690
do this so in a lot of universities

955
00:38:13,580 --> 00:38:11,670
there are departments of people who

956
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:13,590
study religion and these departments are

957
00:38:16,910 --> 00:38:15,570
filled with all kinds of different you

958
00:38:18,310 --> 00:38:16,920
know in my department let's take my

959
00:38:21,130 --> 00:38:18,320
department as an example we have

960
00:38:23,420 --> 00:38:21,140
archaeologists we have people who study

961
00:38:26,180 --> 00:38:23,430
languages like ancient languages Greek

962
00:38:28,370 --> 00:38:26,190
Latin there's a linguists and we also

963
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:28,380
have people like me you know historians

964
00:38:32,420 --> 00:38:29,970
who they have a tradition that they

965
00:38:34,580 --> 00:38:32,430
study and then we teach about religion

966
00:38:36,650 --> 00:38:34,590
we don't advocate religion we don't say

967
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:36,660
you need to be Jewish or you need to be

968
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:38,130
Christian or something like that we

969
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:40,770
teach about religion so that's what we

970
00:38:45,650 --> 00:38:42,810
do might feel now that said what do we

971
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:45,660
study well you know we study stuff that

972
00:38:49,250 --> 00:38:47,520
looks to be from a rationalist

973
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:49,260
perspective kind of strange right a

974
00:38:54,740 --> 00:38:51,810
Christianity for example this is a guy

975
00:38:57,470 --> 00:38:54,750
who's born of a virgin he's the son of a

976
00:38:58,880 --> 00:38:57,480
god and he can walk on water and do all

977
00:39:00,859 --> 00:38:58,890
these kinds of things you know to a

978
00:39:02,270 --> 00:39:00,869
person who's a non-christian say from

979
00:39:04,849 --> 00:39:02,280
another country you know that looks kind

980
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:04,859
of odd you know right there or you study

981
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:07,770
Bodhisattvas you know who can fly or you

982
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:10,170
know seems like this so we do study

983
00:39:15,290 --> 00:39:13,200
things that would appear to in a

984
00:39:17,930 --> 00:39:15,300
rationalist universe to be non

985
00:39:19,790 --> 00:39:17,940
rationalist right so it's not that weird

986
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:19,800
that people in my field would study the

987
00:39:26,450 --> 00:39:23,970
police in aerial phenomena or UFOs so to

988
00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:26,460
answer your question that is what we

989
00:39:30,290 --> 00:39:28,320
study and I know there was another part

990
00:39:31,550 --> 00:39:30,300
of your question and can you restate it

991
00:39:34,780 --> 00:39:31,560
so I could answer that part because that

992
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:34,790
was interesting oh just what some of the

993
00:39:38,359 --> 00:39:37,050
examples might be that you find in

994
00:39:40,010 --> 00:39:38,369
religious studies that might be

995
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:40,020
considered paranormal if they occurred

996
00:39:44,540 --> 00:39:43,170
like today absolutely yeah okay so this

997
00:39:46,309 --> 00:39:44,550
is what happened to me when I first

998
00:39:49,309 --> 00:39:46,319
realized that

999
00:39:51,890 --> 00:39:49,319
what I made a realization at one point

1000
00:39:53,689 --> 00:39:51,900
when I was studying the UFO phenomena

1001
00:39:55,189 --> 00:39:53,699
and I thought you know what I actually

1002
00:39:56,569 --> 00:39:55,199
think that I've been studying this my

1003
00:39:58,130 --> 00:39:56,579
whole life you know because I thought it

1004
00:39:59,959 --> 00:39:58,140
was said you religious study but

1005
00:40:03,589 --> 00:39:59,969
actually I've been studying this stuff

1006
00:40:06,499 --> 00:40:03,599
so in my book on purgatory I did this

1007
00:40:09,019 --> 00:40:06,509
analysis of basically a history of

1008
00:40:11,659 --> 00:40:09,029
purgatory which if your listeners don't

1009
00:40:15,289 --> 00:40:11,669
know is a Catholic doctrine that is

1010
00:40:17,929 --> 00:40:15,299
about souls and when you die your soul

1011
00:40:20,449 --> 00:40:17,939
in Christian theology you can go to hell

1012
00:40:21,979 --> 00:40:20,459
or your soul can go to heaven but in

1013
00:40:24,739 --> 00:40:21,989
Catholic theology which is also

1014
00:40:27,409 --> 00:40:24,749
Christian your soul can go to purgatory

1015
00:40:28,789 --> 00:40:27,419
which is a place between it could be bad

1016
00:40:30,439 --> 00:40:28,799
or it could be good but it's definitely

1017
00:40:32,419 --> 00:40:30,449
not heaven like your soul is not good

1018
00:40:35,359 --> 00:40:32,429
enough to get into heaven well what I

1019
00:40:37,699 --> 00:40:35,369
found out was that purgatory began as a

1020
00:40:39,769 --> 00:40:37,709
place so there were some places on earth

1021
00:40:42,349 --> 00:40:39,779
that were called purgatory and that the

1022
00:40:44,659 --> 00:40:42,359
doctrine of purgatory kind of arose from

1023
00:40:46,370 --> 00:40:44,669
a lot of these places and the fact

1024
00:40:47,989 --> 00:40:46,380
there's still this place in Ireland if

1025
00:40:50,059 --> 00:40:47,999
any of your listeners have been to

1026
00:40:52,729 --> 00:40:50,069
Ireland is called locked earth it's an

1027
00:40:55,399 --> 00:40:52,739
island out on this rock called Rock

1028
00:40:56,509 --> 00:40:55,409
Durgan there was a purgatory cave out

1029
00:40:59,179 --> 00:40:56,519
there and people would go to the

1030
00:41:01,279 --> 00:40:59,189
purgatory cave and go into it and it

1031
00:41:03,439 --> 00:41:01,289
would be good for their souls so that

1032
00:41:05,569 --> 00:41:03,449
surprised me so that was very odd and

1033
00:41:08,059 --> 00:41:05,579
they would meet demons and all kinds of

1034
00:41:09,859 --> 00:41:08,069
things in this purgatory cave another

1035
00:41:11,479 --> 00:41:09,869
thing is that once I started to realize

1036
00:41:14,329 --> 00:41:11,489
that there were some correlations

1037
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:14,339
between what people saw today and what

1038
00:41:18,769 --> 00:41:16,890
people saw back in the day I went back

1039
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:18,779
to the original sources of some of the

1040
00:41:24,289 --> 00:41:22,079
more interesting Catholic sightings like

1041
00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:24,299
the Marian apparitions and I also went

1042
00:41:31,699 --> 00:41:27,599
back to Teresa of ávila who was the 16th

1043
00:41:34,459 --> 00:41:31,709
century Spanish nun who basically had an

1044
00:41:35,870 --> 00:41:34,469
experience that is if any of your

1045
00:41:39,709 --> 00:41:35,880
listeners have been to Rome they may

1046
00:41:42,739 --> 00:41:39,719
have seen a statue by Bernini of her it

1047
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:42,749
cooked the ecstasy of Saint Teresa by

1048
00:41:46,489 --> 00:41:44,249
the way she's also called a doctor of

1049
00:41:49,189 --> 00:41:46,499
the church so she's quite a well-known

1050
00:41:52,669 --> 00:41:49,199
saint in the Catholic tradition and she

1051
00:41:56,339 --> 00:41:52,679
had an experience and the experience if

1052
00:41:58,499 --> 00:41:56,349
you see it so it's depicted in art

1053
00:42:00,329 --> 00:41:58,509
if your listeners have their computers

1054
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:00,339
or phones in front of them making Google

1055
00:42:06,150 --> 00:42:04,089
st. Teresa's ecstasy and they'll see

1056
00:42:08,430 --> 00:42:06,160
this encounter that looks like she's

1057
00:42:11,489 --> 00:42:08,440
encountering this kind of angel this

1058
00:42:13,170 --> 00:42:11,499
cherubic looking angel but I decided to

1059
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:13,180
go back to the original source of that

1060
00:42:18,210 --> 00:42:16,450
and read it and I read it and it looks

1061
00:42:20,759 --> 00:42:18,220
like it could have been in John Mack's

1062
00:42:21,690 --> 00:42:20,769
book called abduction human encounters

1063
00:42:24,299 --> 00:42:21,700
with aliens

1064
00:42:27,269 --> 00:42:24,309
I had regretted thought oh my goodness

1065
00:42:29,069 --> 00:42:27,279
this is really a weird experience that

1066
00:42:30,779 --> 00:42:29,079
she had she didn't even know if it was

1067
00:42:32,609 --> 00:42:30,789
an angel or what she didn't know what it

1068
00:42:34,559 --> 00:42:32,619
was so she called it she said I'm not

1069
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:34,569
sure what kind of is this is a short

1070
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:37,569
angel and it's all on fire it looks like

1071
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:39,729
and then it has this little dart and it

1072
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:42,249
examines her right with this dart and so

1073
00:42:45,630 --> 00:42:43,690
you know that looks like this classic

1074
00:42:47,789 --> 00:42:45,640
abduction experience that we call that

1075
00:42:50,039 --> 00:42:47,799
today yeah so I went back and I looked

1076
00:42:52,109 --> 00:42:50,049
at these kinds of sources and we read

1077
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:52,119
them and with the new lens that I had

1078
00:42:57,150 --> 00:42:54,400
and I thought wow this is really

1079
00:42:59,640 --> 00:42:57,160
surprising mm-hmm borderline blasphemous

1080
00:43:02,099 --> 00:42:59,650
right so I mean you know I wouldn't tell

1081
00:43:04,319 --> 00:43:02,109
my super Catholic family look they're

1082
00:43:06,660 --> 00:43:04,329
gonna read about it anyway but yeah I

1083
00:43:08,219 --> 00:43:06,670
love that st. Teresa example that was

1084
00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:08,229
the exact one I was hoping you would

1085
00:43:13,229 --> 00:43:10,960
cite because we have this ecstasy of

1086
00:43:14,670 --> 00:43:13,239
Saint Teresa statue and it just doesn't

1087
00:43:17,009 --> 00:43:14,680
really look anything like what the

1088
00:43:18,900 --> 00:43:17,019
original account says and that's what's

1089
00:43:20,670 --> 00:43:18,910
really important about the work you do

1090
00:43:22,890 --> 00:43:20,680
is you go back and you look at the

1091
00:43:25,170 --> 00:43:22,900
original first mention and you're like

1092
00:43:27,569 --> 00:43:25,180
hey this isn't exactly how it's

1093
00:43:28,979 --> 00:43:27,579
represented and maybe this is something

1094
00:43:31,319 --> 00:43:28,989
different and now that you have this new

1095
00:43:33,479 --> 00:43:31,329
context you can put all those pieces

1096
00:43:35,339 --> 00:43:33,489
together and I just think that's really

1097
00:43:38,370 --> 00:43:35,349
really fascinating because these are

1098
00:43:41,489 --> 00:43:38,380
clues as to what is really going on in

1099
00:43:43,859 --> 00:43:41,499
ufology perhaps yeah it's going to make

1100
00:43:45,420 --> 00:43:43,869
a lot of people very unhappy and upset

1101
00:43:48,779 --> 00:43:45,430
right because they have their

1102
00:43:50,190 --> 00:43:48,789
interpretation of the experience you

1103
00:43:52,799 --> 00:43:50,200
know and they want to believe the Bernie

1104
00:43:54,690 --> 00:43:52,809
version right and here I come along and

1105
00:43:56,579 --> 00:43:54,700
I say well and I hate to say it but

1106
00:43:58,349 --> 00:43:56,589
people in religious studies this happens

1107
00:44:01,319 --> 00:43:58,359
to us all the time we get on an airplane

1108
00:44:03,180 --> 00:44:01,329
and people off what we do we never say I

1109
00:44:05,099 --> 00:44:03,190
study religion that's the worst thing

1110
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:05,109
you could tell someone because then you

1111
00:44:08,940 --> 00:44:06,729
know they tell you something and you

1112
00:44:09,989 --> 00:44:08,950
know well that's just an interpretation

1113
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:09,999
have you read

1114
00:44:14,969 --> 00:44:12,249
original source in Latin you know I mean

1115
00:44:19,799 --> 00:44:14,979
if you do then your interpretation

1116
00:44:21,329 --> 00:44:19,809
changes so we are used to our work you

1117
00:44:24,599 --> 00:44:21,339
know having haters I guess you could go

1118
00:44:26,009 --> 00:44:24,609
that's right so I knew once I started to

1119
00:44:28,799 --> 00:44:26,019
do this I was like oh great

1120
00:44:30,029 --> 00:44:28,809
if I thought my purgatory book which by

1121
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:30,039
the way not a lot of people read

1122
00:44:33,929 --> 00:44:32,079
academic books it's not general reading

1123
00:44:35,759 --> 00:44:33,939
but for some reason a lot of people are

1124
00:44:38,609 --> 00:44:35,769
picking up my UFO book and they're going

1125
00:44:40,289 --> 00:44:38,619
to read it and I think people who get it

1126
00:44:42,389 --> 00:44:40,299
you know and are already somewhat

1127
00:44:44,459 --> 00:44:42,399
conditioned to understand this they're

1128
00:44:45,839 --> 00:44:44,469
going to like it but I think a lot of

1129
00:44:48,179 --> 00:44:45,849
traditional people that are going to

1130
00:44:50,519 --> 00:44:48,189
read it they're going to not like it in

1131
00:44:52,619 --> 00:44:50,529
fact I read one review of it that

1132
00:44:56,519 --> 00:44:52,629
basically said this will expand your

1133
00:45:01,199 --> 00:44:56,529
mind but it hurts you not an easy

1134
00:45:03,629 --> 00:45:01,209
expansion man reading reviews can be a

1135
00:45:06,629 --> 00:45:03,639
trying experience for sure but that that

1136
00:45:08,339 --> 00:45:06,639
is a good detail I like that one but

1137
00:45:12,149 --> 00:45:08,349
it's a slippery slope be careful there

1138
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:12,159
no I will so I wanted to get into the

1139
00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:14,079
the Vatican side of things a little bit

1140
00:45:18,539 --> 00:45:15,609
because that's another huge takeaway

1141
00:45:20,039 --> 00:45:18,549
from the personal journey of your book

1142
00:45:21,809 --> 00:45:20,049
almost didn't make it in from what I

1143
00:45:24,179 --> 00:45:21,819
understand but you went off to do some

1144
00:45:26,339 --> 00:45:24,189
unrelated research that ended up being

1145
00:45:28,649 --> 00:45:26,349
maybe more related than you might have

1146
00:45:31,499 --> 00:45:28,659
thought right absolutely

1147
00:45:34,529 --> 00:45:31,509
this is where you know you want your job

1148
00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:34,539
to be interesting and I have to say that

1149
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:37,569
mine never fails to surprise me so I

1150
00:45:43,019 --> 00:45:39,729
finished my book and I turned it in to

1151
00:45:44,849 --> 00:45:43,029
my editor and it was already late and it

1152
00:45:46,889 --> 00:45:44,859
already had to go through like all kinds

1153
00:45:48,329 --> 00:45:46,899
of editing because people are in the

1154
00:45:50,939 --> 00:45:48,339
book that need to look at it make sure

1155
00:45:53,999 --> 00:45:50,949
that it's okay so it's being edited and

1156
00:45:56,729 --> 00:45:54,009
I've been asked to go to the Vatican and

1157
00:46:00,719 --> 00:45:56,739
it was funded by a billionaire who want

1158
00:46:03,209 --> 00:46:00,729
to learn about these Saints who are said

1159
00:46:04,730 --> 00:46:03,219
do you have by located and also to

1160
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:04,740
levitate

1161
00:46:09,859 --> 00:46:06,810
and I'm supposed to look at these

1162
00:46:11,300 --> 00:46:09,869
manuscripts find them and basically just

1163
00:46:13,970 --> 00:46:11,310
look at them and kind of do an

1164
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:13,980
observation of them and do a first book

1165
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:15,330
kind of thing so it's kind of like a

1166
00:46:19,940 --> 00:46:17,330
reconnaissance mission that I'm on and

1167
00:46:21,740 --> 00:46:19,950
getting into the Vatican is hard enough

1168
00:46:24,590 --> 00:46:21,750
especially the secret archive you've got

1169
00:46:26,690 --> 00:46:24,600
to have the correct credentials and when

1170
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:26,700
you get there it's a long ways from

1171
00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:29,520
where I'm at so when you get there you

1172
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:31,260
want to make sure that they have what's

1173
00:46:34,490 --> 00:46:33,090
there because they have a huge library

1174
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:34,500
and it takes them a long time to find

1175
00:46:39,770 --> 00:46:37,040
this stuff so I spent about a year in

1176
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:39,780
contact with the Vatican archivists

1177
00:46:44,660 --> 00:46:42,960
there in the secret archives I've told

1178
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:44,670
them this is what I need to find there

1179
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:47,040
in Italian I'm in English and I'm trying

1180
00:46:51,650 --> 00:46:48,960
to write in Italian and stuff like that

1181
00:46:54,500 --> 00:46:51,660
so that's what the experience was so far

1182
00:46:56,930 --> 00:46:54,510
so then I realized that it might be

1183
00:46:59,390 --> 00:46:56,940
interesting since now I have this new

1184
00:47:02,060 --> 00:46:59,400
idea about Catholic history to take

1185
00:47:05,090 --> 00:47:02,070
Tyler with me because Tyler has no clue

1186
00:47:07,250 --> 00:47:05,100
about the Catholic tradition yet it has

1187
00:47:08,990 --> 00:47:07,260
a lot of information about aerial

1188
00:47:11,930 --> 00:47:09,000
phenomena and I thought how cool would

1189
00:47:13,550 --> 00:47:11,940
it be to take Tyler did share with him a

1190
00:47:15,740 --> 00:47:13,560
lot of these primary sources I'll read

1191
00:47:18,859 --> 00:47:15,750
them to him and just get his opinion

1192
00:47:21,710 --> 00:47:18,869
about them not only that but I had been

1193
00:47:23,740 --> 00:47:21,720
invited by brother guy Consolmagno who's

1194
00:47:27,260 --> 00:47:23,750
the director of the Vatican Observatory

1195
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:27,270
which is in Catholic and also the papal

1196
00:47:31,460 --> 00:47:29,130
summer residence about an hour and a

1197
00:47:33,530 --> 00:47:31,470
half outside Vatican that's where they

1198
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:33,540
keep all the space research and that's

1199
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:35,760
really where I wanted to go so I thought

1200
00:47:40,220 --> 00:47:38,250
I could combine these things and go

1201
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:40,230
there and look at the space research

1202
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:42,650
stuff and then look at the stuff at the

1203
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:46,800
Vatican proper and so I wasn't sure that

1204
00:47:52,099 --> 00:47:49,530
Tyler would be able to get into the

1205
00:47:56,030 --> 00:47:52,109
archive because they won't let anybody

1206
00:47:58,099 --> 00:47:56,040
in and so we got a bunch of credentials

1207
00:48:00,140 --> 00:47:58,109
for him you know he got letters from

1208
00:48:01,430 --> 00:48:00,150
Dean's of colleges and stuff like that

1209
00:48:04,099 --> 00:48:01,440
but they wouldn't let him in and I was

1210
00:48:06,020 --> 00:48:04,109
actually on the plane on my way there

1211
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:06,030
and he was texting me and saying they

1212
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:08,400
won't let me in at some point he's

1213
00:48:12,650 --> 00:48:10,170
decided he's going to show some kind of

1214
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:12,660
ID to them and I thought well gosh if

1215
00:48:16,190 --> 00:48:13,770
you know I don't know what kind of

1216
00:48:18,050 --> 00:48:16,200
Viking is gonna show but if they know

1217
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:18,060
that he's affiliated with anything to

1218
00:48:20,089 --> 00:48:18,480
have to do

1219
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:20,099
arrow phenomena apply to get suspicious

1220
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:22,800
and not let me in so I thought don't do

1221
00:48:26,510 --> 00:48:24,930
it don't do it you know but then because

1222
00:48:29,089 --> 00:48:26,520
he couldn't get in he knee tried for

1223
00:48:31,339 --> 00:48:29,099
hours he finally did it apparently was

1224
00:48:33,740 --> 00:48:31,349
given all access to get it I mean it was

1225
00:48:36,250 --> 00:48:33,750
a very odd thing and by the time I got

1226
00:48:39,740 --> 00:48:36,260
there he'd already made some friends

1227
00:48:41,630 --> 00:48:39,750
with some priests who knew the Vatican

1228
00:48:43,700 --> 00:48:41,640
site now and could take us all kinds of

1229
00:48:46,490 --> 00:48:43,710
places that I would never have been able

1230
00:48:47,930 --> 00:48:46,500
to go so it's just really serendipity I

1231
00:48:50,690 --> 00:48:47,940
don't know what you want to call it but

1232
00:48:52,250 --> 00:48:50,700
it was really cool so we got there we

1233
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:52,260
were able to few things that we were

1234
00:48:57,710 --> 00:48:54,720
able to do I was able to go actually see

1235
00:48:59,690 --> 00:48:57,720
that Bernie statue and the weird thing

1236
00:49:02,839 --> 00:48:59,700
about it too is the priests that Tyler

1237
00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:02,849
made friends with actually had a relic

1238
00:49:08,599 --> 00:49:06,510
of Teresa of ávila which I was amazed by

1239
00:49:09,890 --> 00:49:08,609
so I took a picture of that and then we

1240
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:09,900
traveled up to the Space Observatory

1241
00:49:15,190 --> 00:49:13,680
after about a week and it occurred to me

1242
00:49:18,530 --> 00:49:15,200
where we were in the Space Observatory

1243
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:18,540
archives that one is a saint she

1244
00:49:22,190 --> 00:49:19,770
actually she's not a saint

1245
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:22,200
her cause for canonization is actually

1246
00:49:28,130 --> 00:49:25,170
being heard but I'm not sure she will be

1247
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:28,140
canonized but her dave-o days I guess is

1248
00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:29,520
what you want to call them the people

1249
00:49:34,069 --> 00:49:31,710
who want her to be canonized this has

1250
00:49:37,309 --> 00:49:34,079
been going on for a long time hundreds

1251
00:49:38,930 --> 00:49:37,319
of years so I'm it doesn't look good in

1252
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:38,940
any way so I looked at her record and

1253
00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:41,130
she's actually part of American history

1254
00:49:45,740 --> 00:49:43,920
and if you go to the southwest you'll

1255
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:45,750
see churches devoted to her she's called

1256
00:49:52,900 --> 00:49:48,450
the lady in blue and she lived in the

1257
00:49:55,819 --> 00:49:52,910
1600s and she believed that she had been

1258
00:49:59,780 --> 00:49:55,829
carried and flown on the wings of angels

1259
00:50:02,589 --> 00:49:59,790
across space to a place in New Mexico

1260
00:50:05,180 --> 00:50:02,599
and there she evangelize indigenous

1261
00:50:07,790 --> 00:50:05,190
Americans right so I was at the space

1262
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:07,800
archive and I thought wow that's a

1263
00:50:12,079 --> 00:50:10,050
really rude coincidence and so I kind of

1264
00:50:14,809 --> 00:50:12,089
hooked up at Tyler and I asked him I

1265
00:50:15,980 --> 00:50:14,819
said did Maria actually go to the place

1266
00:50:18,079 --> 00:50:15,990
for it because I didn't know where I've

1267
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:18,089
had been I was blindfolded so I didn't

1268
00:50:23,329 --> 00:50:20,160
know and he just looked at me and he got

1269
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:23,339
a really weird look on his face and I

1270
00:50:27,950 --> 00:50:26,250
dropped the topic but I thought you know

1271
00:50:30,589 --> 00:50:27,960
what this has to be my last chapter

1272
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:30,599
because this is just too coincidental to

1273
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:32,000
be doubt we

1274
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:33,440
because you know if you think about it

1275
00:50:38,470 --> 00:50:35,930
here great you've got and I'm not trying

1276
00:50:42,100 --> 00:50:38,480
to be literal because there are so many

1277
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:42,110
layers of meaning to this but back in

1278
00:50:46,630 --> 00:50:42,800
the day

1279
00:50:49,630 --> 00:50:46,640
Spain colonize that area it didn't go

1280
00:50:53,020 --> 00:50:49,640
well for the indigenous population it

1281
00:50:55,570 --> 00:50:53,030
was a terrible thing for them and it was

1282
00:50:58,420 --> 00:50:55,580
a point of contact between two cultures

1283
00:51:01,630 --> 00:50:58,430
that was a violent contact and here we

1284
00:51:03,670 --> 00:51:01,640
have another place of supposed contact

1285
00:51:06,610 --> 00:51:03,680
which is contact between you know

1286
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:06,620
extraterrestrials and humans right so

1287
00:51:09,970 --> 00:51:08,690
I'm not talking about this literally now

1288
00:51:11,650 --> 00:51:09,980
I'm talking about it metaphorically

1289
00:51:13,630 --> 00:51:11,660
there's a lot of people believe in it

1290
00:51:16,270 --> 00:51:13,640
literally you know obviously Tyler does

1291
00:51:18,700 --> 00:51:16,280
obviously the Catholic Church does as

1292
00:51:21,340 --> 00:51:18,710
well right and it was actually a literal

1293
00:51:23,020 --> 00:51:21,350
contact for the Catholic Church and the

1294
00:51:26,260 --> 00:51:23,030
indigenous Americans so it was a very

1295
00:51:28,510 --> 00:51:26,270
strange circle and I knew that this

1296
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:28,520
would have to end the book so I that

1297
00:51:33,340 --> 00:51:29,810
might have got back in touch with my

1298
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:33,350
editor I said sorry this is a really

1299
00:51:36,610 --> 00:51:34,730
cool trip and I really think I have to

1300
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:36,620
write about it and I sent her some of

1301
00:51:40,930 --> 00:51:38,090
the pictures that I took there and she

1302
00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:40,940
said okay go ahead write it so I

1303
00:51:46,930 --> 00:51:43,910
finished my last chapter there mm-hmm

1304
00:51:49,630 --> 00:51:46,940
yeah I love those two bookends stories

1305
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:49,640
kind of in the way that they sync up I

1306
00:51:55,300 --> 00:51:52,250
mean when you examine things like

1307
00:51:56,980 --> 00:51:55,310
ancient structures or even the layout of

1308
00:51:59,620 --> 00:51:56,990
something like Washington DC it seems

1309
00:52:02,710 --> 00:51:59,630
like certain people have put emphasis on

1310
00:52:05,260 --> 00:52:02,720
things like ley lines or the planets

1311
00:52:08,860 --> 00:52:05,270
energy grid and I've always been kind of

1312
00:52:11,950 --> 00:52:08,870
curious if there is some component that

1313
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:11,960
is geographic in nature to paranormal

1314
00:52:16,780 --> 00:52:14,240
experiences are there hotspots is it

1315
00:52:18,670 --> 00:52:16,790
because there's more energy here or

1316
00:52:20,770 --> 00:52:18,680
there or can there be some way to

1317
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:20,780
harness certain things so the fact that

1318
00:52:26,020 --> 00:52:23,330
that came up here I think it's just you

1319
00:52:28,870 --> 00:52:26,030
know another clue yeah it was a queen

1320
00:52:30,940 --> 00:52:28,880
for sure and this is why I take off my

1321
00:52:32,860 --> 00:52:30,950
academic hat and just kind of tell you a

1322
00:52:36,580 --> 00:52:32,870
little bit about the experience for me

1323
00:52:39,790 --> 00:52:36,590
so when I wrote the second chapter you

1324
00:52:42,910 --> 00:52:39,800
know with James and about James and I

1325
00:52:44,839 --> 00:52:42,920
it's hard to write a book and I'm

1326
00:52:47,450 --> 00:52:44,849
struggling here and

1327
00:52:49,099 --> 00:52:47,460
I was thinking how I start this and I

1328
00:52:52,729 --> 00:52:49,109
started it by talking about the actual

1329
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:52,739
place that we were in New Mexico and how

1330
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:54,569
it definitely didn't seem like the place

1331
00:52:58,579 --> 00:52:56,640
where Iowa's it almost seemed like it

1332
00:52:59,870 --> 00:52:58,589
was conscious and so I thought well

1333
00:53:01,430 --> 00:52:59,880
that's a weird thing to say about a

1334
00:53:01,819 --> 00:53:01,440
place but I'm gonna put it in there

1335
00:53:03,829 --> 00:53:01,829
anyway

1336
00:53:06,319 --> 00:53:03,839
so I put it in there and I realized that

1337
00:53:09,259 --> 00:53:06,329
yeah that's exactly how it felt to me

1338
00:53:12,410 --> 00:53:09,269
that this place was not your normal

1339
00:53:15,140 --> 00:53:12,420
place and it became its own character in

1340
00:53:17,870 --> 00:53:15,150
a sense and then when we were in the

1341
00:53:20,989 --> 00:53:17,880
archives at the Catholic and also Space

1342
00:53:22,849 --> 00:53:20,999
Observatory I actually decided that we

1343
00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:22,859
should probably look at some of those

1344
00:53:29,420 --> 00:53:26,160
more physical components like latitude

1345
00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:29,430
longitude amount of metals in the earth

1346
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:31,680
in these different places and you know

1347
00:53:38,539 --> 00:53:33,410
we found some pretty interesting

1348
00:53:40,009 --> 00:53:38,549
phenomena there mm-hmm well Diana I

1349
00:53:42,319 --> 00:53:40,019
could do it all day this is really

1350
00:53:44,660 --> 00:53:42,329
amazing stuff and you have just really

1351
00:53:46,249 --> 00:53:44,670
interesting insights and a unique take

1352
00:53:48,979 --> 00:53:46,259
on a lot of these things are there any

1353
00:53:52,009 --> 00:53:48,989
plans to continue this work or take it

1354
00:53:54,109 --> 00:53:52,019
deeper maybe I'm not sure yet so I'm

1355
00:53:56,599 --> 00:53:54,119
going to find how it all shakes out

1356
00:53:58,880 --> 00:53:56,609
because it's not your typical type of

1357
00:54:01,579 --> 00:53:58,890
religious studies book so I'm just going

1358
00:54:04,009 --> 00:54:01,589
to wait for maybe six months or so or

1359
00:54:06,349 --> 00:54:04,019
maybe it's a little bit longer I do have

1360
00:54:08,690 --> 00:54:06,359
another book I'd like to write it delves

1361
00:54:10,700 --> 00:54:08,700
into the idea of what I found was that

1362
00:54:12,589 --> 00:54:10,710
most of the people I talked with always

1363
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:12,599
had this thing which I call in the book

1364
00:54:16,969 --> 00:54:15,450
the book encounter or the synchronicity

1365
00:54:19,549 --> 00:54:16,979
they're really intense meaningful of

1366
00:54:21,739 --> 00:54:19,559
coincidence and I'd like to examine that

1367
00:54:23,569 --> 00:54:21,749
more in depth but we'll just wait to see

1368
00:54:25,579 --> 00:54:23,579
how things go mmm

1369
00:54:27,469 --> 00:54:25,589
right the right information crossing

1370
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:27,479
paths at the right time or really

1371
00:54:34,249 --> 00:54:29,930
altering the person's life yes exactly

1372
00:54:36,259 --> 00:54:34,259
so just as random this up how can people

1373
00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:36,269
I mean obviously you can get the book

1374
00:54:40,670 --> 00:54:38,400
anywhere but we also have a link to give

1375
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:40,680
them because you do blog and kind of

1376
00:54:45,769 --> 00:54:42,450
carry this journey forward on your

1377
00:54:49,339 --> 00:54:45,779
website right hey you my website is

1378
00:54:52,309 --> 00:54:49,349
American cosmic comm and if people are

1379
00:54:53,839 --> 00:54:52,319
interested in latest types of interviews

1380
00:54:56,150 --> 00:54:53,849
and things like that they can go on

1381
00:54:58,490 --> 00:54:56,160
there and put their email address in and

1382
00:54:59,870 --> 00:54:58,500
I'll blast out an email

1383
00:55:03,050 --> 00:54:59,880
when I talk about things you know I've

1384
00:55:04,970 --> 00:55:03,060
talked about fast in fiction in film you

1385
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:04,980
know with Oxford and you know do you

1386
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:06,930
have you know like this interview god

1387
00:55:11,900 --> 00:55:08,970
bless that out you know so I do have

1388
00:55:14,300 --> 00:55:11,910
things that come up that I think even

1389
00:55:16,700 --> 00:55:14,310
other people work that relate to this

1390
00:55:18,020 --> 00:55:16,710
topic like Eric Fargo's time loops you

1391
00:55:19,940 --> 00:55:18,030
know it's super interesting

1392
00:55:22,550 --> 00:55:19,950
Jeff cry poles new book flip you know I

1393
00:55:24,650 --> 00:55:22,560
pass those out too so anybody who's

1394
00:55:26,140 --> 00:55:24,660
interested in this type of thing feel

1395
00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:26,150
free to do that

1396
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:29,250
awesome are you still doing coupon codes

1397
00:55:34,700 --> 00:55:32,010
of any kind for the book I do have a

1398
00:55:36,590 --> 00:55:34,710
coupon code yes I do and I don't have it

1399
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:36,600
in front of me right now but I certainly

1400
00:55:41,180 --> 00:55:39,090
will give it to you you can only use it

1401
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:41,190
on the oh you pee site though the Oxford

1402
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:43,290
site you can't put it into Amazon and

1403
00:55:48,410 --> 00:55:45,690
get the 30% off but it's a 30% off code

1404
00:55:49,970 --> 00:55:48,420
and I can email it to you directly after

1405
00:55:53,060 --> 00:55:49,980
this and if you want you can put it on

1406
00:55:55,250 --> 00:55:53,070
your site and anybody of your listeners

1407
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:55,260
can use it but like I said it's just for

1408
00:55:58,730 --> 00:55:56,130
the Oxford site

1409
00:56:00,590 --> 00:55:58,740
awesome yes I will absolutely include

1410
00:56:02,210 --> 00:56:00,600
that because I'm sure people are really

1411
00:56:05,510 --> 00:56:02,220
excited about getting into this book and

1412
00:56:07,490 --> 00:56:05,520
digging deeper but thanks so much what a

1413
00:56:09,350 --> 00:56:07,500
ride I really appreciate you breaking it

1414
00:56:11,720 --> 00:56:09,360
all down for us and keep up the great

1415
00:56:16,310 --> 00:56:11,730
work thank you so much Greg it was

1416
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:16,320
wonderful to be on your show sweet baby

1417
00:56:22,100 --> 00:56:19,680
Jesus dear listeners man I was so happy

1418
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:22,110
to have gotten the show recorded and now

1419
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:24,090
to put it out I really think this is

1420
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:26,850
something special in fact I heard dr.

1421
00:56:32,660 --> 00:56:29,490
Diana on rune soup talking about Saints

1422
00:56:35,090 --> 00:56:32,670
last year and I added her name to my

1423
00:56:37,550 --> 00:56:35,100
very long list but then I saw that

1424
00:56:39,260 --> 00:56:37,560
American cosmic was releasing and the

1425
00:56:42,110 --> 00:56:39,270
stars align that's a perfect opportunity

1426
00:56:43,670 --> 00:56:42,120
and I just love it because I'm sure

1427
00:56:46,010 --> 00:56:43,680
you've heard me say on a million

1428
00:56:48,950 --> 00:56:46,020
episodes in regards to a bunch of

1429
00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:48,960
different topics okay so we keep hearing

1430
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:50,730
about what happened all these years ago

1431
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:54,450
but what's going on now well this is

1432
00:56:59,570 --> 00:56:57,690
what's going on now and I felt like I

1433
00:57:02,720 --> 00:56:59,580
was eavesdropping on some high-level

1434
00:57:04,730 --> 00:57:02,730
stuff when I was reading her book and I

1435
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:04,740
guess I should mention the Oxford

1436
00:57:09,230 --> 00:57:06,570
University Press thing I'm sure there

1437
00:57:12,210 --> 00:57:09,240
will be questions it's sort of why I

1438
00:57:15,329 --> 00:57:12,220
asked her about the to the stars

1439
00:57:17,609 --> 00:57:15,339
Academy which she had no comment on it

1440
00:57:20,700 --> 00:57:17,619
just seems like certain forces are

1441
00:57:21,890 --> 00:57:20,710
trying to find the right ways to reach

1442
00:57:25,380 --> 00:57:21,900
the public

1443
00:57:27,900 --> 00:57:25,390
obviously Tom DeLonge wasn't it and as

1444
00:57:30,660 --> 00:57:27,910
Diana said it's possible that she was

1445
00:57:32,819 --> 00:57:30,670
sort of led down this path a little bit

1446
00:57:35,849 --> 00:57:32,829
but I appreciate her willingness to

1447
00:57:38,790 --> 00:57:35,859
pursue it and also to write about it

1448
00:57:42,870 --> 00:57:38,800
I saw another UFO book come out last

1449
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:42,880
year from MIT press so obviously some

1450
00:57:49,020 --> 00:57:45,280
reveals are happening the faucet seems

1451
00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:49,030
to have some drip edge and sometimes you

1452
00:57:54,059 --> 00:57:51,609
can't win right because we want more

1453
00:57:59,339 --> 00:57:54,069
things to be revealed but the people who

1454
00:58:00,839 --> 00:57:59,349
really know often aren't trusted so it's

1455
00:58:03,530 --> 00:58:00,849
a bit of a catch-22 and of course

1456
00:58:05,819 --> 00:58:03,540
anyone's gonna be skeptical of a

1457
00:58:08,490 --> 00:58:05,829
representative from a place that has

1458
00:58:11,819 --> 00:58:08,500
kept secrets but how do you break the

1459
00:58:14,010 --> 00:58:11,829
cycle just things to think about because

1460
00:58:17,790 --> 00:58:14,020
a lot of folks out there are talking

1461
00:58:21,780 --> 00:58:17,800
about disclosure soft disclosure and

1462
00:58:24,180 --> 00:58:21,790
various threads that speak to some kind

1463
00:58:26,670 --> 00:58:24,190
of reveal and these are things to keep

1464
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:26,680
in mind as that process rolls out I

1465
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:29,290
don't trust everything I hear I

1466
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:32,970
definitely take into account the source

1467
00:58:39,380 --> 00:58:36,250
but I also understand you got to be a

1468
00:58:42,270 --> 00:58:39,390
little realistic about the situation as

1469
00:58:44,130 --> 00:58:42,280
always though my job is just to present

1470
00:58:46,500 --> 00:58:44,140
you with the latest and greatest be

1471
00:58:48,660 --> 00:58:46,510
forthright about everything I can be and

1472
00:58:51,390 --> 00:58:48,670
you work out where it belongs in your

1473
00:58:53,700 --> 00:58:51,400
worldview personally I just think it's

1474
00:58:55,500 --> 00:58:53,710
awesome to hear anything new and to talk

1475
00:58:57,329 --> 00:58:55,510
to someone who's rubbed elbows with the

1476
00:58:59,300 --> 00:58:57,339
invisible college and also gotten into

1477
00:59:02,490 --> 00:58:59,310
some privileged by attic in archives and

1478
00:59:05,730 --> 00:59:02,500
there is a lot to be said about Tyler

1479
00:59:08,190 --> 00:59:05,740
and James lots of things to think about

1480
00:59:09,839 --> 00:59:08,200
and pull apart like I don't think we

1481
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:09,849
even mentioned this on the show but

1482
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:11,890
Tyler doesn't drink coffee and he loves

1483
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:14,290
meditation has a set of protocols to

1484
00:59:19,740 --> 00:59:17,530
keep his mind optimized little things in

1485
00:59:21,690 --> 00:59:19,750
the book that I would read and think oh

1486
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:21,700
well that ties into a lot of the things

1487
00:59:25,590 --> 00:59:24,490
we hear about and if tech billionaires

1488
00:59:27,780 --> 00:59:25,600
who know

1489
00:59:29,910 --> 00:59:27,790
language of alien entities stay

1490
00:59:31,530 --> 00:59:29,920
disciplined on these key things maybe

1491
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:31,540
it's good stuff to fold into our own

1492
00:59:37,500 --> 00:59:34,930
lives plus I really liked her insights

1493
00:59:39,510 --> 00:59:37,510
into Saints and miracles and just how

1494
00:59:41,310 --> 00:59:39,520
wide a view we might have to take of

1495
00:59:43,980 --> 00:59:41,320
biblical miracles and religious

1496
00:59:47,100 --> 00:59:43,990
artifacts like the ecstasy of Saint

1497
00:59:50,780 --> 00:59:47,110
Theresa example people don't often go to

1498
00:59:53,460 --> 00:59:50,790
the source we get our mental picture of

1499
00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:53,470
certain stories from the art that was

1500
00:59:59,790 --> 00:59:57,040
created to tell that story and sometimes

1501
01:00:03,690 --> 00:59:59,800
that isn't a proper representation is

1502
01:00:06,330 --> 01:00:03,700
the difference intentional was everyone

1503
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:06,340
just so Catholic in these examples that

1504
01:00:11,310 --> 01:00:08,650
it was the only box that you could put

1505
01:00:13,380 --> 01:00:11,320
it in back then or was it packaged in a

1506
01:00:16,110 --> 01:00:13,390
way to prop up the Catholic Church I

1507
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:16,120
don't know but it's funny how today a

1508
01:00:22,230 --> 01:00:19,290
movie like Titanic or American sniper

1509
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:22,240
forms a distorted mental picture of the

1510
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:25,210
actual historic event it's the same with

1511
01:00:30,180 --> 01:00:27,610
the ecstasy of Saint Teresa statue and

1512
01:00:33,060 --> 01:00:30,190
probably many many other things in those

1513
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:33,070
archives and if you're interested in

1514
01:00:37,110 --> 01:00:35,410
reading the book American cosmic as we

1515
01:00:40,230 --> 01:00:37,120
said in the show we have a thirty

1516
01:00:42,300 --> 01:00:40,240
percent off discount code to give you so

1517
01:00:45,150 --> 01:00:42,310
you can purchase the book on the Oxford

1518
01:00:48,270 --> 01:00:45,160
site the link will be in the show notes

1519
01:00:56,820 --> 01:00:48,280
but I'll also tell it to you now the

1520
01:00:59,210 --> 01:00:56,830
code is in all caps a a F ly g six a a

1521
01:01:02,820 --> 01:00:59,220
fly g6

1522
01:01:05,100 --> 01:01:02,830
just think about that song and if you

1523
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:05,110
liked hearing from Diana do let her know

1524
01:01:09,810 --> 01:01:07,570
her website is American cosmic comm

1525
01:01:12,510 --> 01:01:09,820
she's definitely a guest who has a lot

1526
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:12,520
of contacts and when they release books

1527
01:01:19,110 --> 01:01:15,930
I'd like to know that colleagues of hers

1528
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:19,120
will hear that THC is a great place to

1529
01:01:25,410 --> 01:01:22,090
go you get an informed host a

1530
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:25,420
high-quality and engaged and girthy

1531
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:28,090
audience and you'll see a healthy

1532
01:01:33,060 --> 01:01:30,850
response you know sometimes I need you

1533
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:33,070
guys to help me play the game and stay

1534
01:01:36,930 --> 01:01:36,310
on top of the media short lists that's

1535
01:01:39,530 --> 01:01:36,940
just how it goes

1536
01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:39,540
and I can give you better show

1537
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:43,710
as a result so help me help you and we

1538
01:01:48,650 --> 01:01:46,410
all win I am looking forward to reading

1539
01:01:51,230 --> 01:01:48,660
the reactions to this show there will be

1540
01:01:53,180 --> 01:01:51,240
some cynicism and skepticism I'm sure

1541
01:01:55,850 --> 01:01:53,190
because we're getting quite close to the

1542
01:01:57,500 --> 01:01:55,860
inner circle on this one and not to

1543
01:01:59,720 --> 01:01:57,510
repeat myself but think about the

1544
01:02:02,000 --> 01:01:59,730
position of someone who's probably in a

1545
01:02:04,490 --> 01:02:02,010
compartmentalized program who knows a

1546
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:04,500
few things but not everything has their

1547
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:07,970
own bosses and non-disclosure agreements

1548
01:02:13,220 --> 01:02:10,410
I'm not saying you need to just accept

1549
01:02:15,530 --> 01:02:13,230
everything anyone tells you but if we're

1550
01:02:16,220 --> 01:02:15,540
so aggressive and rigid as to not listen

1551
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:16,230
at all

1552
01:02:22,130 --> 01:02:19,200
how can someone on the inside even talk

1553
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:22,140
to us why even go through the trouble if

1554
01:02:26,060 --> 01:02:23,970
they're just gonna get stoned by the mob

1555
01:02:28,550 --> 01:02:26,070
that is the alternative community you

1556
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:28,560
know what I'm saying these things have

1557
01:02:33,050 --> 01:02:31,200
been secret for a lot longer than the

1558
01:02:35,980 --> 01:02:33,060
careers of people who are currently

1559
01:02:39,350 --> 01:02:35,990
involved with them so if we can't be

1560
01:02:41,260 --> 01:02:39,360
somewhat open and somewhat civil and

1561
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:41,270
make it comfortable to talk about

1562
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:43,170
they'll just say it's not worth the

1563
01:02:47,420 --> 01:02:45,930
trouble and the secrecy cycle will

1564
01:02:50,060 --> 01:02:47,430
continue we're gonna have to come to

1565
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:50,070
some middle ground eventually but who am

1566
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:51,810
I to say when those conditions are right

1567
01:02:55,730 --> 01:02:53,970
anyway this was fun I'm not used to

1568
01:02:57,230 --> 01:02:55,740
having a guest who actually can't talk

1569
01:02:59,900 --> 01:02:57,240
about a lot of what they've seen and

1570
01:03:01,430 --> 01:02:59,910
done you want to push to get a few more

1571
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:01,440
details but you don't want to get your

1572
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:03,330
guests in trouble or go overboard with

1573
01:03:08,300 --> 01:03:05,730
it I think we got a lot of great stuff

1574
01:03:10,310 --> 01:03:08,310
though Tyler's work experiences Diana's

1575
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:10,320
going to a secret location that looked a

1576
01:03:14,860 --> 01:03:12,330
lot like a place an x-files scene was

1577
01:03:17,930 --> 01:03:14,870
filmed at the crossover between

1578
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:17,940
realities secrets and Hollywood's

1579
01:03:26,090 --> 01:03:22,130
insight this metallic frog skin artifact

1580
01:03:28,190 --> 01:03:26,100
Saints bio locating thought it was great

1581
01:03:30,290 --> 01:03:28,200
and I highly recommend the book if you

1582
01:03:31,820 --> 01:03:30,300
only heard the first hour as always we

1583
01:03:33,500 --> 01:03:31,830
have a second hour four plus members

1584
01:03:37,130 --> 01:03:33,510
sign up at the higher side chats plus

1585
01:03:40,310 --> 01:03:37,140
calm you get the full archive THC music

1586
01:03:43,010 --> 01:03:40,320
joint sessions and other bonuses in this

1587
01:03:45,340 --> 01:03:43,020
episode with dr. Basilica we talked

1588
01:03:48,140 --> 01:03:45,350
about the Vatican's huge head start

1589
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:48,150
compared to Silicon Valley and the CIA's

1590
01:03:53,180 --> 01:03:50,970
paranormal research it's another one of

1591
01:03:55,819 --> 01:03:53,190
those details this came out in the plush

1592
01:03:58,490 --> 01:03:55,829
yes but hearing that the Vatican has

1593
01:04:02,839 --> 01:03:58,500
books on electromagnetism in their

1594
01:04:05,359 --> 01:04:02,849
archives that's something we also talked

1595
01:04:08,059 --> 01:04:05,369
about how UFOs and religious encounters

1596
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:08,069
might both relate to some technology

1597
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:11,130
that we don't know about how the spikes

1598
01:04:18,819 --> 01:04:14,130
in major UFO sightings suggest a pattern

1599
01:04:22,099 --> 01:04:18,829
of reinforcement I just think that whole

1600
01:04:24,410 --> 01:04:22,109
section is mind-blowing but then we also

1601
01:04:27,410 --> 01:04:24,420
talked to Diana about her thoughts on

1602
01:04:31,430 --> 01:04:27,420
the occult and the alien spirit overlap

1603
01:04:34,190 --> 01:04:31,440
and if you listen closely she said that

1604
01:04:38,870 --> 01:04:34,200
she put the people she was dealing with

1605
01:04:40,809 --> 01:04:38,880
in the context of what she knows about

1606
01:04:42,950 --> 01:04:40,819
Jack Parsons

1607
01:04:45,579 --> 01:04:42,960
we talked about a lot of other stuff

1608
01:04:47,900 --> 01:04:45,589
like dr. Dean Radin --zz work and

1609
01:04:51,819 --> 01:04:47,910
technologies we have today that might

1610
01:04:54,289 --> 01:04:51,829
relate to previously found et technology

1611
01:04:57,549 --> 01:04:54,299
reinterpreting the stigmata with modern

1612
01:04:59,950 --> 01:04:57,559
knowledge a lot of great stuff and again

1613
01:05:02,630 --> 01:04:59,960
just really psyched to put this out

1614
01:05:05,329 --> 01:05:02,640
we're not going through the motions of

1615
01:05:06,500 --> 01:05:05,339
the same old outsider speculation we're

1616
01:05:09,410 --> 01:05:06,510
talking to someone with first-hand

1617
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:09,420
experience and she's been super-nice

1618
01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:11,130
through the whole process although I

1619
01:05:15,859 --> 01:05:13,440
know she's had a lot going on so I

1620
01:05:18,019 --> 01:05:15,869
definitely thank her for her time hope

1621
01:05:19,029 --> 01:05:18,029
you enjoyed it and that ends the month

1622
01:05:23,420 --> 01:05:19,039
of February

1623
01:05:26,930 --> 01:05:23,430
Lyme disease shows UFO shows cult of

1624
01:05:29,150 --> 01:05:26,940
bail shows and space weather man it's

1625
01:05:31,609 --> 01:05:29,160
been a ride and I hope you're strapped

1626
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:31,619
in for more I'll see you next time your

1627
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:33,930
move invisible college colleague saucer

1628
01:05:38,740 --> 01:05:35,730
secret keepers and attendants of the

1629
01:05:42,530 --> 01:05:38,750
metallic frog skin your

1630
01:05:47,690 --> 01:05:42,540
[Music]

1631
01:05:53,020 --> 01:05:47,700
woke up this morning with light in my

1632
01:05:56,490 --> 01:05:53,030
eyes and then realized it was tough

1633
01:05:56,500 --> 01:06:08,770
it was a lie coming down from the sky

1634
01:06:08,780 --> 01:06:11,099
you

1635
01:06:20,739 --> 01:06:15,890
must be those strangers that come

1636
01:06:25,310 --> 01:06:20,749
every night who's a saucer-shaped light

1637
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:25,320
put people up time

1638
01:06:36,500 --> 01:06:29,850
the blue-green footprints left the

1639
01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:36,510
hallway in the dark I hope they get home

1640
01:06:49,990 --> 01:06:48,469
mr. spaceman won't you please take me

1641
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:50,000
along

1642
01:07:03,460 --> 01:06:57,770
I won't do anything wrong hey mr.

1643
01:07:11,630 --> 01:07:03,470
spaceman won't you please take me alone

1644
01:07:13,050 --> 01:07:11,640
the hi moved up this morning

1645
01:07:17,090 --> 01:07:13,060
[Music]

1646
01:07:24,530 --> 01:07:17,100
feeling quite weird I had

1647
01:07:29,390 --> 01:07:26,990
open my window

1648
01:07:31,980 --> 01:07:29,400
written my name

1649
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:31,990
[Music]

1650
01:07:44,020 --> 01:07:34,410
we'll see you

1651
01:07:53,890 --> 01:07:46,660
won't you please take me

1652
01:07:59,779 --> 01:07:53,900
I won't do anything wrong Hey

1653
01:08:01,000 --> 01:07:59,789
[Music]

1654
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:01,010
me alone

1655
01:08:10,980 --> 01:08:09,170
[Music]

1656
01:08:12,109 --> 01:08:10,990
this face man

1657
01:08:16,260 --> 01:08:12,119
[Applause]

1658
01:08:20,679 --> 01:08:16,270
or - please take me alone

1659
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:20,689
how long do anything

1660
01:08:31,330 --> 01:08:26,650
[Music]

1661
01:08:33,910 --> 01:08:31,340
why don't you please take me along the

1662
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:46,750
won't you please take me along the high